Dave 0:38

That's “Field of Fire”, the title track from Richard Lloyd's second solo album. A founding member of the profoundly influential band Television, Richard has led a fascinating life. He covers a lot of that life in his book, Everything Is Combustible, television, CBGBs, and Five Decades of Rock and Roll, the memoirs of an alchemical guitarist. In addition to his time with television, Richard has played on albums by Matthew Sweet and John Doe and has produced many albums. It was great and a great honor to talk with Richard Lloyd. No lessons, no technique info. I just talked to people who play guitar. Stay tuned. Richard, thanks for taking the time to do this today.

Richard 2:17

No problem. Glad to be here.

Dave 2:20

I was listening the other day to uh your “Field of Fire”, and uh I don't know, I just wanted to mention Keith Patchell, who also played guitar and sang on that album. I saw I was it a couple years ago he passed away. Is that right?

Richard 2:34

That's correct, yeah.

Dave 2:36

Interesting guy. He wrote like symphonies and operas, I think.

Richard 2:40

Yeah, he got into some very uh interesting left turns there.

Dave 2:44

Yeah. Well, before we get into going into the past, uh, I want to talk a little bit about your book because I I almost always prefer reading a book and not necessarily listening to it, but I was really glad I did decide I decided to get the audio version of Everything Is Combustible. And I want to talk a little about your approach to writing it because you used voice recognition software and you kind of read your thoughts out loud as opposed to typing it out. Is that correct?

Richard 3:14

That's correct. I've always been a good storyteller of the people have said that, and uh, I hate typing in a typewriter. So um I wouldn't have been able to write the book if I'd had to jot it down. Also, when you write, you know, physically, you get different you you're having to slow your thoughts down when you're writing. You gotta write in little, you know, semi-sentences, and it's just a drag.

Dave 3:44

Right.

Richard 3:44

So it's not a novel. So it just depends on memory.

Dave 3:50

Yeah. I really enjoyed it. I did both. I I listened. I listened to it and I read it. It was great.

Richard 3:56

Okay.

Dave 3:56

Well, to say you were a curious kid would be an understatement. I I found it interesting that at a very young age you would put earplugs or even maybe your fingers in your ears so that you could hear inner sounds.

Richard 4:11

Yeah, I wanted to see what the senses were doing, you know. If you could if you could see out of one eye, you know, portion of the day. My mother didn't want me to wear an eye an eye patch, so she says it was, you know, uh there are people with real disabilities. And I was like, yeah, but they're they're not playing with their their senses.

Dave 4:34

Right. Well, one reason you like the guitar was the ability to bend notes on the strings.

Richard 4:40

That's right. It's a very uh unique instrument in that uh there's no boundary between I mean obviously you have threats which are stopping the strings or letting only portions of the string bring out. But you also can bend notes for the mental.

Dave 5:00

Right.

Richard 5:02

That's really unique. Yeah, harmonica can do that to some degree.

Dave 5:07

Yes.

Richard 5:07

And so can do it. Like too many you know string instruments can do it, like uh but you can't find strings on a violin. You can just all the note and get a migrano out of it. Yeah, not on keyboards either. Yeah, you can especially keyboards. I'm not a fan of keyboards.

Dave 5:29

You also studied drums when you were young.

Richard 5:32

Piano came first. I mean actually a piano. A little baby piano came first in terms of musical stuff that was interesting in interesting in the vibration. And the uh the concept that came to me was that once you hit a note, it never stops ringing in that time span. Anything that exists can't unexist exists. So that kind of community to eternity or infinity. And nothing uh that takes place is ever gone, so to say. Everything is still here in its own time.

Dave 6:16

I love that you would bring your guitar to school instead of books and homework. And but you you passed you passed all your tests. You were very dedicated to becoming a great guitar player, so bringing it to school.

Richard 6:28

Yeah, of course. Yeah, I I I set my wish in motion a long time before it came true.

Dave 6:37

Yeah, I was gonna say, you it seemed from the from what I read, you were you knew, you were determined. You you wanted to to uh be also a a case of uh what I did want to do.

Richard 6:50

Well yeah. And that was very potent. I didn't want to I to me a nine to five job is like standing in cement that hardens around your lower end. You can't then you can't walk, you can't leave, can't go anywhere, you're stuck in one life. I never really wanted to get stuck in a life. I suppose you can't help it, and so you gotta go along with it because that's the nature of the reality we're in at the moment.

Dave 7:19

Well, you achieved your goals.

Richard 7:22

To a certain to a certain degree, I did, yeah.

Dave 8:49

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Dave 9:52

Well, a friend's brother sold you your first Stratocaster. Was that around the time you turned your attention from drumming to playing guitar?

Richard 10:02

Yeah, afterwards. Okay. Yeah. I was looking for I wanted a guitar. My parents wouldn't buy one for me. They said, well, you're invested in the drums and you can always get a job as a drummer. But as a guitarist, you're really in the, you know, in a crowded field, as it were, at that time, you know, the 60s.

Dave 10:23

Yeah.

Richard 10:24

So everybody's still picking up the guitar and doing what they can with it.

Dave 10:29

Well, in your teenager years, you crossed paths with and became friends with another guitar player who I know passed away, I think like 20 years ago. But do you want to talk at all about Velvert Turner?

Richard 10:42

What do you want to talk about?

Dave 10:44

Well, I know a lot of people scoffed. They didn't think he, he know, I guess the story was he was, you know, visiting with Jimi Hendrix, learning and you know, relaying some of that information, and there were people around him that were like, did not believe that that was going on, but you did. You believed, and and it turned out it was true that that he was getting information and getting lessons from Hendrix.

Richard 11:09

Yeah. Well, that he knew Hendrix at all was like, you know, impossible.

Dave 11:14

Yeah.

Richard 11:15

For a 15-year-old kid to supposedly supposed to know, you know, be and especially be friends with. And Jimi thought of Velvert as his protege. So getting a lot of attention. And uh Velvert. Um, they had a pretty good relationship.

Dave 11:39

We even went to some Hendrix shows in that time period, right?

Richard 11:42

I meant I went to a Hendrix show that can I met Calvin.

Dave 11:46

Oh wow.

Richard 11:47

Jimi was in town. Was it uh Show State? Or no World's Fair New York Pavilion World's Fair in 64. Wow.

Dave 12:02

And you saw uh Jeff Beck, I think, in the early days.

Richard 12:05

I went to Filmore East. I went to a lot of shows at the Filmore.

Dave 12:09

Wow. I tried to see Jeff Beck whenever I could when I was just a you know young teen. I he was he was a guitar hero, and I tried to see him every time he came to town.

Richard 12:20

So Right. That's a good uh good goal. How many times did you actually see Jeff?

Dave 12:27

I think uh I think it was maybe five over the years. Um yeah, so I that's great. Yeah, like with Jan Hammer a couple times, and I saw him just for some solo shows, and yeah, it was just always a always a favorite.

Richard 12:41

Put on good shows. Yeah, I saw them when they were uh doing tours for their the first Jeff Beck group record.

Dave 12:49

Oh yeah, yeah. The great period.

Richard 12:51

Yeah, with Rod Stewart and Mickey Mac Nicky Waller and uh and what's his name on uh Ron Wood on bass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He plays great bass on that record. He does.

Dave 13:04

He does. Well, when you were living out of Terry Ork's loft, he asked you to go see Tom Miller, who would ultimately change his name to Tom Verlane. And initially initially, I don't I think you weren't interested in going at first and maybe even a little reluctant.

Richard 13:22

No, because he said he said, I know a guy who does what you do. And I said, Well, how do you know what I do? Because why you play guitar all day by yourself, and and this guy does that too. And I said, Why should I want to go see somebody who uh uh is doing basically what I'm doing, which is practicing, when I could be practicing myself and getting better. Instead, I'm gonna go see this other art. It didn't make any sense to me. But the day that at that show uh a string broke on my guitar and I didn't have a replacement. Oh so that's the that's the only reason I went.

Dave 14:05

Stay tuned. We'll be right back.

Speaker 3 14:15

That's Eric Roscoe Ambel from his classic album Roscoe's Gang, produced by Eric, along with Lou Whitney, and featuring Ron Rongo Gremp, Joe Terry, and D. Clinton Thompson, all former members of the Morells. I hope you'll listen to my two-part interview with Roscoe in season one of Frets with DJ Fey.

Eric Ambel 14:37

You know, that was the hottest gig in town, the Morels gig. And uh there was a sign, and Rongo was at the door, you know, and there was a sign that said, Donnie's sick, the Morels can't play tonight, but Lou has sent the Dell Lords from New York City. And really, like uh for our band, that made St. Louis became a second home almost for us, you know, throughout the band's existence.

Dave 15:06

Eric Roscoe Ambel from season one of Frets.

Richard 15:17

This is Richard Lloyd, and you're listening to Frets by DJ Fey.

Dave 15:22

Well, there was a period of time also when you would practice without an amp, partly because you really wanted to do that.

Richard 15:30

I still play I still practice with without an amp on electric guitars, you know, without amplification.

Dave 15:38

Yeah, I I think that's a great way of doing it because yeah, you before anyone you know hears you play through an amp, I it is an interesting way of of getting getting in tune with that song. Well, when I saw that you had written your memoir, that was it was exciting to me because you can always look up information on guitar players and bands, and but I I always go away wondering if what I'm reading is you know legit, but accurate. Yeah, this was in your accurate, right? And it was in your words. And I that's the kind of book I really love reading, is when someone does their own you know story. Um that's why I used to always like read liner notes on albums, and I always wanted to know who was playing what and who wrote songs and all that stuff. I still do that too.

Richard 16:25

Yeah, you don't get that much information on a record. No, no, no. And then when they made it into CDs, you got less information.

Dave 16:32

Exactly.

Richard 16:32

Yeah. Now it's now you don't have any information. So what do they call that? Streaming.

Dave 16:38

Streaming, exactly. Yeah.

Richard 16:40

Well, nobody's streaming me. That's that's for sure.

Dave 16:49

Yeah, the whole thing is it's a very it's so different from the old days.

Richard 16:54

Yeah, it is that. Although you still want to make it, you gotta get your own thing together.

Dave 17:01

Right.

Richard 17:01

Not depend it upon you can't depend upon being discovered anymore. You have to discover yourself, and then find a way to find an audience. Because all they want to do, you know, big business conglomerates, all they want to do is uh hijack your revenue streams. I mean, you go to a record company, you go to their office, and they got gold-plated ashtrays and lounge chairs, and you go in and you're like, oh, this is ritzy, but who paid for all of this? You know, musicians. That's right.

Dave 17:37

That's right. It's the musicians that need to earn their due. Well, in the days before television signed with Elektra, there was excitement of being in a working band, but there were obviously some frustrations. You you seem well, you seemed willing to go along uh with Tom Verlaine's vision, but not at all hesitant to being very vocal about your ideas, too. And I also think I think was it Richard Hell that wanted you to change your name because so that there wouldn't be two Richards.

Richard 18:06

Oh, they both they both did.

Dave 18:08

Well, I'm glad you stood your ground on that.

Richard 18:10

Yeah, well, uh he can go screw himself. And I liked him liked uh Richard more than Richard liked me. He could care less. You know, he's gonna uh uh definitely has something stiff inside.

Dave 18:27

Well, another thing I learned from your book, and I love these kind of details. I think I guess Tom didn't like playing leads in the key of G, so he preferred that you take the lead on songs like uh See No Evil was even one where you took the lead.

Richard 18:41

Right. Well, when when we formed the band, I c I made it very plain and clear that I was a lead guitarist, not a not a spectacular rhythm guitarist of a lead. And anytime Tom was singing, I had to take the melody parts. So uh the complicated parts felt to me. And that's the way it wasn't all the way through. If Tom wasn't so if Tom Tom was also a great soloist, and uh we flipped the solos back and forth between us. But uh when Cush comes to the show, I was the lead guitarist and co-soloist.

Dave 19:24

Well, you also stood up to producers, even Andy Johns, telling him you were a guitar band and you didn't want the drums overshadowing you and Tom on guitar.

Richard 19:34

Right. Well, he went in early the the day before we were supposed to start and set the drums up and got a you know, a little bit of his own drumming on. And so when we we waited, waited and waited for him. And uh when he finally came and said he recorded some stuff. He didn't do that. So we had him play that kind of just like John Tom. We didn't want to sound like anybody else. So uh actually it was Tom that took up the fight with him. That got in the big argument. And he was ready to fly back in. He was like, so you want to sound bad, eh? And we were like, no, we don't want to sound bad. We want to sound exactly as we are, anyway. Um we all took little roles of you know in the studio in terms of the production. I was the guy who wanted to know the signal path all the time, like what microphones he's using for what, and uh what preamps and what compressors and what you know. I wanted to know between the uh music and the tape machine what actually was the transport, you know, of that information. I mean, it's just information, isn't it?

Dave 20:58

Right.

Richard 20:59

So yeah, I wasn't put myself in charge of that.

Dave 22:04

Hey, quick reminder to check out Frets with DJ Fey on YouTube. Subscribe for free, and you'll find extras like shorts and videos featuring live performances of Frets guests. Subscribing really does help keep the podcast going. And did I mention it's free. Now, back to the show.

Dave 22:33

Well, 14 years after Marquee Moon was released, the band put out the self-titled album, Television. I love the guitar work on that album. And to me, it's this very it's it's like a confident, playful, sometimes even experimental interaction or kind of a communication between you and Tom.

Richard 22:53

Right. I'm glad you put it that way. It's a nice way of looking at it.

Dave 22:57

And we're just a few years away from Marquee Moon turning 50, which is kind of wild.

Richard 23:02

That's right. They're gonna put out, they're putting out a very special uh remastering, remixing, or whatever they've gonna do to it uh for the 50th anniversary. In a limited edition, high, you know, high uh high, hi, hi.

Dave 23:22

Well, this may seem like a dumb question, and I should know this, but do you have like many, many, many guitars, or have you settled on a handful of guitars that you really love?

Richard 23:32

I've always like I always had one guitar and maybe two, and then uh only recently I've gotten to where I have like uh more than a dozen guitars. But it isn't like some of these people who have you know they could open their own store. They have so many instruments and amps and what have you, you know. I always said, well, how many guitars can you play at one time? I think you know, I mean there's really two or an acoustic and an electric. I don't know, you know you can't play more than one at a time. So why have you know fifty guitars you can never touch? When you really like one and you end up playing it all the time, and none of the other 49 are out of commission. Nobody can play them. It's very sad.

Dave 24:29

Well, at some point you moved to Chattanooga. What prompted your move to Chattanooga?

Richard 24:36

Uh we were having a big fight with our landlord in uh New York, and they wanted to buy us out of our apartment, and uh we got a good penny for that. And then uh my wife's parents live down here, and they're they're getting old, and she wanted to be near them and help take care of them, which she does now, like pretty regularly.

Dave 24:59

I was just there recently, uh found it very charming, at least what I saw. I only stayed one night, but the riverfront's really nice. I saw a guy down there playing guitar on the bridge. It was a really nice right.

Richard 25:11

It's a great town. It's uh really friendly, it's extremely beautiful. It's called the Scenic City, that's its nickname.

Dave 25:19

It's very scenic.

Richard 25:21

And it's halfway between Nashville and Atlanta. So you know, about two hours away from either of those in opposite directions. And people, you know, like Cheetah Chrome of the Dead Boys, he used to come to Chattanooga for vacation when he lived in Nashville. That tells you something.

Dave 25:42

Well, here's a question I like to ask guests occasionally. A young person decides that he or she wants to be a guitarist. What advice does Richard Lloyd have for that kid?

Richard 25:54

Well, get one and keep it out of the out of its case. Like you face. I mean, here. I have a guitar within reach on both sides. Not plugged in though. Can you hear that?

Dave 26:10

Yeah, I did hear I heard a strum there.

Richard 26:12

Yeah, that's that's it. Keep the guitar right, right in front of you.

Dave 26:17

I think that's sage advice, yeah, because you you know it's you you're the more you play, the more you keep it with you, you're gonna you're gonna get better and better.

Richard 26:24

You're gonna get better. You can't really get worse. Right. Because when you start, you're an idiot. You stay that way for a very long time. I'm still fighting my hands and you know trying to get good.

Dave 26:45

Stay tuned. We'll be right back.

Toby 26:50

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Dave 27:43

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Speaker 3 29:07

Speaker 3 29:07

Well, you're you're still out there continuing to play, and you have a couple shows coming up at the end of this month. Uh I think November November 28th at Aisle 5 in Atlanta, and then the 29th at the basement in Nashville. Is that right? That's right. I wish I could be there. I'm gonna be out of town and traveling, but uh anyone. Where do you live? I'm in St. Louis, but we're gonna be traveling to Arizona. So uh I'd love for you to come to St. Louis. I think you were scheduled to play your a few years ago, and I think it was during COVID or something. I don't know. It seemed like something got got off schedule.

Richard 29:41

Yeah. I had one tour canceled because of COVID, and another one canceled because I went went nuts. I had a a breakdown. So it happens.

Dave 29:52

Well, I'm glad you're still playing. I'm glad you're doing shows. Uh hey, there's a city's there's a city winery in St. Louis now. Maybe you could uh make another trip to St. Louis.

Richard 30:01

Could be.

Dave 30:02

That would be great.

Richard 30:06

Yeah. Oh, I know booking a tour is really tough these days.

Dave 30:10

Is it?

Richard 30:11

It really is. People aren't going out the way they used to. I wish they would. COVID dampening, dampening on live audiences. It's you know, it's being overcome, but it's still unsettling.

Dave 30:25

Yeah. Yeah, I've been trying to get out though. There's been uh more and more shows. Yeah, a lot of us were avoiding going for a while, but um, I'm I'm always excited.

Richard 30:33

I didn't leave my I didn't like basically leave my house for two years. There was no place to go and do anything.

Dave 30:39

Yeah.

Richard 30:40

Everywhere you went, you had to wear a mask, and you know, so anyway.

Dave 30:44

It was a rough period. Well, I never would have imagined that I would one day have a conversation with the one and only Richard Lloyd. It's been great. I really appreciate this, and I can't thank you enough um for taking the time to do this.

Richard 30:57

No problem.

Dave 30:58

Well, thanks a lot.

Richard 30:59

Okay, take care now. Thanks. Bye-bye.

Toby 31:35

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