DJ: India Ramey has been referred to as “The Woman in Black” and “The Wednesday Addams of Country Music”. India’s 2017 album Snake Handler landed her in Rolling Stone’s 10 New Country Artists You Need to Know. Her 2020 album Shallow Graves debuted at number six on the Euro Americana chart.

That was followed by 2024’s fiery Baptized by the Blaze, another great album where she confronts her journey through the fire toward healing and empowerment. [00:21:00] And on May 8, we’ll see the release of her new record, Welcome to My Villain Era. You’re hearing a track from it now. Stay tuned for my talk with India Ramey.

DJ: [00:00:00] India.

India: Yeah. Hi, Dave.

DJ: How are you?

India: I’m good. How are you?

DJ: I’m good. Thank you so much for doing this.

India: Mm-hmm. Thanks for having me.

DJ: Well, I want to talk about the new album, of course, that’s coming out soon. But before we get into that, I would love to go way back and hear about your roots. You were born in Rome, Georgia. Is that right?

India: Yes, I was born and raised in Rome, Georgia, and we lived there until I was about 12 or 13.

DJ: Okay. And that’s not far from Atlanta., right?

India: No, it’s about hour and a half, two hours from Atlanta. but Atlanta was the big city, you know, to us, because there wasn’t anything that ever happened in Rome. So if you ever wanted to like go see a concert or go to a real mall, you had to drive all the way to Atlanta.

DJ: And I think Blues Singer Ma Rainey was from Rome.

India: Really? I didn’t know that. I didn’t, I had no idea.

DJ: Yeah. And another, uh, Frets guest who’s actually been on a couple times now is from Marietta, which I think is also pretty close.

India: Yeah. Marietta’s pretty close too.

DJ: Yeah. Yeah. Murray Attaway from Guadalcanal Diary.

India: [00:01:00] Mm-hmm.

DJ: Well, um, at some point you moved to Alabama. Did you say that was when you were like 12?

India: Yeah, when I was 12, um, I enrolled in and got accepted to the Alabama School of Fine Arts in Birmingham, in the dance program. And so I went to live in the dorm at age 12, right before I turned 13. And while I was in school and in the dorm in Birmingham, my parents moved just over the state line to Cedar Bluff, Alabama.

DJ: Well, during that period of your life, maybe even, you know, before and during and after, you know, the move, what kinds of music do you remember hearing and responding to? Maybe it was, you know, around the family or friends or…

India: It was all kinds. I mean, I, in my early, early childhood when my father was still in the picture, he was heavily into Waylon Jennings and Willie Nelson. So I was raised on The Outlaws album. But I, I was also raised on Fleetwood Mac and [00:02:00] the Eagles, that, those… Fleetwood Mac and The Eagles were staples in our house until, yeah, until I was a teenager.

I mean, still are. but my sister, Autumn, she’s 10 years older than me, she was a punk rocker in Atlanta. And, um. You know, she’d make me mix tapes and she would sneak me into punk clubs when I was like nine years old. And, um, like I saw DOA at the Metroplex in Atlanta when I was nine. So I was, I was really into, I was really into punk bands and really into New Wave.

Like as a, like a fourth, fifth grader, I was like a huge Duran Duran fan and I was into Echo & the Bunnymen and Siouxsie and the Banshees. So all kinds, I mean all over the place. And when I was in college, I got real, I got back into country because my best friend Joy was real into, Hank Jr. and David Allen Coe.

And Waylon Jennings. And it took me back, you know, to my early childhood, whenever she was playing it in our apartment. We would sit out [00:03:00] on the porch and drink beer and you know, talk shit and listen David Allen Coe. So I all over the place. I’m like ’90s Country too. Like when I was in high school, I was real into Shania Twain, Faith Hill and Patty Loveless.

Oh my God. Patty Loveless. I feel like, I feel like Patty Loveless and Pat Benatar taught me how to sing. So.

DJ: That’s a great mix. That’s that’s great.

India: Patsy Cline too. So all the Patsys and Patty taught me, taught India how to sing.

DJ: That’s great. Were you already wondering at that point, like what it would be like to either be in a band or to front a band?

India: Yeah, I mean, I, I was singing before I could actually talk. My grandmother, my grandmother would take me to Pleasant Valley Baptist Church when I was little and like when I was a toddler, and I would stand out in the aisle and sing nonsensical sounds to…while the choir was singing and [00:04:00]everybody would laugh and clap and all that.

And so, I really like when I was little, little, you know, before, before life and adults told you you can’t do this and you can’t do that for all these reasons, I wanted to be a singer when I grew up. That was. When people ask me what I wanted to be, I said I wanted to be a singer, but I had a really bad lisp.

And my sisters used to tease me and say, you can’t be a singer if you have a lisp. And like, you know, along the way, like I, I mean, you know, I was in dance and, and my. Big Sister was a ballerina at School of Fine Arts, and I wanted to be just like her, and, everybody wanted me to be a ballet dancer too, you know, and being the baby of the family, I, uh, wanted to please everybody and so I’ve convinced myself that’s what I wanted.

I convinced myself that I wanted a lot of things that everybody else wanted for a long, long time, but my heart was always in what I’m doing now.

India: I was a [00:05:00] serious ballet dancer. We danced with the Alabama Ballet with the professional company, and we, you know, woke up in the morning and went to first two classes of the day, two periods, and third period was dance. And then we went to academics the rest of the day. And then we had two hour and a half ballet classes in the afternoon starting at 4:30.

And then we would go and do our homework and eat dinner and we would come back to the studio and do rehearsals until 11 o’clock at night.

DJ: Wow.

India: So I was, in a very regimented, serious ballet program.

DJ: Stay tuned, we’ll be right back.

DJ: Well, you also attended University of Alabama School of Law. How much, what was there like time in between the two or…

India: Yeah. So Alabama School of Fine Arts was a K through 12, I mean, not K through 12, um, seventh through 12th. So I, you know, you could start seventh grade there and then,

DJ: Like a middle school.

India: go to high school there. Yeah, middle school and high school And then I went to Birmingham Southern College for undergrad, and then I went to law [00:06:00] school at University of Alabama.

DJ: And I understand that’s where you met your husband.

India: Yes, I did. But um, we didn’t date. I had a crush on him and I wanted to date him, but he was involved with some other girl and it looked at his shoes every time I tried to talk to. Um, and, uh, and, uh, so I, I married another guy in our class and, we were the most wrong for each other that two people could ever be wrong for each other.

DJ: Hmm.

India: I remember, I remember my, our preacher at the church gave us that, like premarital counseling before our wedding, and we did those Myers-Briggs tests and, and the preacher was like trying to make the best of it because our wedding was like the next week. And he was like, well, opposites attract. And uh, no, they do not.

They do not. Um, so I was married to him for three very long years and I happened to run into Shaun when that was busted [00:07:00] up and just pretty much said like, you’re not getting away this time, buddy.

DJ: And I know about that. I, I got married really young too my first time and, uh, kinda went through a similar experience with the…

India: Yeah. yeah. We don’t know what we’re doing when we’re young.

DJ: Thinking opposites would attract. Didn’t work out, but it was a little, little too opposite.

India: Oh yeah.

DJ: Well, Shaun, now did I read somewhere that Shaun introduced you to, or you both were into Tragically Hip?

India: We both were, um, my brother-in-law Grant is Canadian, and so he and my sister are huge Tragically Hip fans. They’re not married anymore, but, they co-parent their daughters and they still share their deep passion for the Tragically Hip. And, uh, and they, you know, taught me about the Hip. I was at a party in law school, bored outta my mind and I could overhear Shaun talking to a group of [00:08:00] people about the Tragically Hip, and they of course didn’t know what he was talking about, and I thought, that’s when I got a crush on him, I was like I’ve got to go out with that guy (laughs). He knows his music!

DJ: I loved them too. I, well, I was a huge Elvis Costello fan, and I knew that the Tragically Hip had taken their name from a line from a, an Elvis Costello song, which I thought was always, thought was pretty cool. But yeah, I, I loved them. It’s so sad that Gord was that like 10 years ago? Gord died.

India: It was a while back. I, it may have been a little bit less than 10 years. Um, I wrote, well, I woke up the morning, you know, that morning after he passed and I was on, that was when I was on Twitter. I’m not on there anymore, but I saw on Twitter that he had passed away. And even though I knew it was coming, it hit me like a ton of bricks. I just felt gutted and, um, I went to the kitchen and got a cup of coffee and wrote a song called “Hole in the [00:09:00] World”,

DJ: Oh, oh, that’s on Shallow Graves, right? Oh, oh, so that’s about…

India: for Gord Downie.

DJ: That’s so sweet. But I mean, bittersweet, but, oh wow. Yeah. I, yeah, that was a very, very sad thing. Um, wow. Tragically Hip.

India: Yeah.

DJ: Was getting into law was getting into law school a way of dealing with the pain you experienced in your childhood, or…

India: Yeah, I mean, overachievement is a trauma response.

DJ: Mm-hmm.

India: So, um, plus, you know, I have a lot of poverty trauma, so it was important to me and it was important to my family that I get a quote, “real job”. And have a salary and be responsible.

DJ: Right.

India: Um, and I thought that I could do all that and save battered women, um, like my mom.

And I thought that that would heal all of that. But it ended up being the worst PTSD trigger ever.

DJ: Yeah. Probably a reminder of, yeah, a constant reminder.

India: And I was miserable. I was miserable in my marriage and I didn’t [00:10:00] belong in Montgomery. And just the whole thing fell apart.

DJ: Hmm. Well, um. During that period, did you join or form any bands?

India: No, it wasn’t until after I moved to Birmingham, uh, around like I think. a buddy of mine asked me to be in this bluegrass cover band called Scattered and Smothered. And they would do, they would do. Songs that weren’t bluegrass, but they would do ’em bluegrass style. So we would do like “Comfortably Numb” bluegrass or “Purple Rain” and bluegrass.

And we would do like a bunch of like other covers too like, that would qualify as bluegrass. Like I, once I joined the band, I started doing a lot of Gillian Welch songs. and, uh. I got kind of bored singing other people’s songs, so I started writing then.

DJ: Well, “Scattered and Smothered” would become the name of a song. And we will get to that. We will get to that.

India: Mm-hmm.

DJ: So you were writing [00:11:00] songs, after a while of doing covers, you were writing your own stuff.

India: So I had already been, I was in that cover band for a couple of years. Like in the early 2000s. And then once I started writing my own stuff and making my own albums, I was doing shows all over Birmingham and just trying to get good because I wasn’t very good when I started.

You know? Like, I mean, I don’t think, I don’t know anybody who is really, I mean, unless there’s some kind of miracle. You know, you kind of have to like, play out and like Dave Grohl says, you know, like, you kind of have to play out and suck for a little bit. Uh, but there was something about it that people were into and they were into the songs and it really caught on and, um, kind of became a thing.

You know, I just sort of like kept working and kept progressing and kept, you know, trying to get better and trying to do better than the last one. And at some point I felt like I needed to be here in Nashville to grow and, and improve more and [00:12:00] to, you know, to do something with it because I, you know, I was, I was late, I was tardy to the party.

You know, like I, I wasn’t, um, I didn’t start until I was in my ’30s, so I didn’t feel like I had a lot of time to waste, you know? I was like, I need to, I need to go to. I need to go to the next level as quickly as I can. So I didn’t mess around. I got out of Birmingham. Came to Nashville.

DJ: Yeah. And eventually you got into a recording studio to cut an album. How did that come together and and how did, what did that feel like for you? It had to feel great to be actually okay, you’re gonna do it.

India: Yeah, I mean I had, I had cut two albums when I lived in Birmingham, like my first two I did. there. Well, I did the first one there and then I did the second one with a producer here that I found through a friend, but Snake Handler. The album that came out in 2017 was my first like national release. It was my first like real album [00:13:00] and um, I did that one and Shallow Graves with Mark Petaccia, and I found Mark through a Birmingham friend of mine named Will Stewart, who is an incredible songwriter and musician.

He was living up here at the time and had done some work with Mark, and Mark had been the engineer on Jason Isbell’s Southeastern album, and I loved the above and beyond how much I love Jason Isbell as a singer and a songwriter and a musician, I loved the sound and the vibe of that album so much. So I jumped at the chance to work with Mark ’cause I wanted to make something that sounded like that, just like had that warmth.

DJ: Sure.

India: So it was great.

DJ: I have fond memories of, I used to go see Drive-By Truckers in little small clubs around here and uh, it’s been really fun to watch, you know, and actually I just saw Patterson Hood last year, but, uh, yeah, Jason is, he’s great. Something else. 

India: [00:14:00] Yeah.

DJ:  Well, since that first album, you’ve released several more great records, and now just a few weeks away from the release of your latest LP.

Welcome to My Villain Era. And this one you recorded in Los Angeles, is that right?

India: Yes, I recorded it at Stag Street Studios in uh, Hollywood.

DJ: Well, I read that you told Eric Corne you wanted the album to sound like Johnny Cash and Loretta Lynn had risen from the grave to score a Quentin Tarantino film.

India: Yep.

DJ: Well, I think you, I think you succeeded. It does sound like a scarf.

India: Good. Thank you. I, I just, I don’t know where, I mean, those are just like the things that I love the most, you know, like I was like, I’m gonna take three things that I love and try to make them get married.

DJ: You did it. It’s got, the album is such a great sound. It’s great. 

India: Thank you.

DJ: By the way, not long ago I started following The Doohickeys and I saw that Haley Spence Brown is on the [00:15:00] album.

India: Yes, she is a harmony master. Like she, I don’t like, she can’t be human. Her harmonies are so perfect. They’re, they’re amazing.

DJ: And she’s from Liberty, Missouri in my state, but she’s more on the other side of, she’s, uh, outside of Kansas City, I believe.

India: Yeah. Yeah. And they’re, and she and Jack are just the nicest people, I love them. And, um, we keep trying to do some shows together, but it hasn’t lined up yet. And I hope that we get to do that at some point.

DJ: Well, fans refer to you as “The Woman in Black” and also one that I absolutely love “The Wednesday Addams of Country Music”.

India: Yeah. Yeah, because I just like, I have a flair for the dark so like my stuff is like, it’s very traditional country and outlaw country, but I like to deal with dark subject matters and yeah, dark visuals.

DJ: I’m a big fan of The Addams Family and of Wednesday Addams, so I thought that was pretty cool.

India: [00:16:00] Yeah, me too.

Me too. Yeah. Like my husband, uh, has always tells me, he’s like, you are a Wednesday Addams. So. Is who you are.

DJ: That’s perfect. Oh, and I have a confession. I meant to talk about this earlier, um, almost a year ago, June, I guess it was. I always try to go to Twangfest, you know, as much as I can, as many of the shows. Yeah. And I, um. I, my other career is, or my, my longtime career has been, as an art director, a graphic designer.

And so I get, asked to, you know, do posters and materials for shows, which I love. I love doing that. So, yeah, I, I, that was one of the ones I did, it was the poster for, uh, last year’s Twangfest. I’m actually working on this year’s.

India: Oh, that was a great poster.

DJ: Well, uh, Kevin Belford, I have to give him a shout out. He does, he always does these great illustrations.

So I have good stuff to work with, but I just do the typography and layout and design. Um, anyway, I was so bummed because the [00:17:00] night you played, I realized I had a scheduled thing that I could not get out of. So I missed you in St. Louis last year. So I really hope at some point.

You’ll get back to St. Louis, or if it’s somewhere near St. Louis, I, I like going to shows outta town too, so.

India: I would love to come back to St. Louis. I like, I, we have a, um, run out to Oklahoma City and back in July I think, and um, I think we were trying to get to Kansas City. I don’t know if anything has come of that, and I might just be like, let’s just loop through St. Louis if we can get something at this point.

Because I, I love playing there and I love Twangfest. Um, I love Off Broadway. I think, I think St. Louis is a beautiful city. Like the architecture of it, it’s just gorgeous. Um, so yeah, I would, I would jump at the chance to get back to St. Louis.

DJ: Yeah. Yeah, I’ve made road trips to Oklahoma to, uh, to see concerts I’ve been to like Cain’s [00:18:00] Ballroom, and so, uh, yeah. I’ll keep an eye out for your upcoming shows.

India: Thank you.

DJ: Well, India Ramey, thank you so much. This has been great and I’m really looking forward to, and I know you are too, I’m sure, to the, uh, release of the new album coming up soon.

India: Yeah, I’m excited. It’s coming out in, two weeks. At this point, so yeah, I’ve, I’ve already started to shave off an hour of sleep every night because my nervous system is, is nice and geared up. So by the time we get to release time, I’m gonna be like, I have my finger in a light socket, let’s go.

DJ: I’ve been listening, I’ve been listening to a lot of, Outlaw Country on Sirius and I your, your songs pop up a lot, and then, so pretty soon, and we’re gonna have more songs on, Outlaw Country.

India: Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, they have been so good to me. Um, Sonny Sweeney and Elizabeth Cook, and Zach, the program director, everybody at [00:19:00] Outlaw Country has been so, so generous with their spins and I am so grateful to them. What a fantastic station.

DJ: I even think that’s, I was driving around one day and one of your songs came on. I was like, I have got to contact, I gotta see if I can talk to India Ramey for the show. And I’m so glad. I am so glad we got to make that happen. So once again, India Ramey. Thank you. And uh. We’ll be in touch.

India: Thanks so much. I appreciate it.

DJ: All right. Bye-bye.

India: Bye.