DJ: . [00:00:00] Well, Ben Vaughn, it has been over three years since you were on Frets, and a couple years now since I randomly crossed paths with you walking down Main Street, Santa Monica.

Ben: Yeah, that was great. That was a real surprise.

DJ: It was so bizarre. I mean, it, it was just so random and it seemed like there was like nobody on the street that day, just me and my friend who were waiting on another friend and, uh, yeah, just so as I got closer, I was like. That’s Ben. So

Ben: Yeah. Yeah.

DJ: Very cool to catch up briefly and uh, yeah. Uh, so right in your, uh, neck of the woods I think ?

Ben: Yeah, well, I have, I, I, I spend my time in between two places. Santa Monica. I have a rent control apartment in Santa Monica, which I’ll never give up even after I die. I’m gonna hang on to that and, and I have a house in the Mojave Desert. So I go back and forth between the two places and, uh, you caught me when I was, uh, roaming, roaming downtown Santa Monica that day.

DJ: Well, the first time you were on the [00:01:00] show, we talked a lot about your early years in the Jersey, Philadelphia area, your move to California, your music not only in bands, but songs you wrote for television.

Of course, your show. Uh, The Many Moods of Ben Vaughn, which I listen to weekly. One of my favorite shows.

Ben: Oh, thank you.

DJ: And your show features so many rare gems. Uh, I mean, where else are you gonna hear Sly Stone yodeling throughout “Spaced Cowboy”

Ben: That is such a great record.

DJ: It is. And you just don’t hear that one that often.

Ben: No, you don’t.

DJ: Not often enough. So.

Ben: No, definitely not.

DJ: And now you have a new podcast, Straight from the Hat. And because I’ve already listened to the first three episodes, I know the format, but since I’m already talking too much, I think Ben Vaughn should tell the listeners how the show came to be and what it’s all about.

Ben: Well, the way it came to be is I was brought in to, taking a reissue project at Sun Records in Nashville. [00:02:00] And while working with Sun, I met Laura Pochodylo. She was kind of assigned to me to help me through the process of how they do things down there. And we started talking about music and we realized we both have the same record collections, except that she’s much younger than I.

Wasn’t alive when a lot of these this music was, you know, first released, which I found intriguing. then as we continued to talk, we both realized that we, we have a serious love for the musical history of Sonny Bono.

DJ: I love that.

Ben: Yeah, and, and not an ironic one either. Like for real, like Sonny had at least a decade of experience in the music business before Sonny and Cher. You know, he produced a lot of R&B records for Specialty. He started, uh, small labels publishing companies. He worked with Phil Spector, all of this before Sonny and Cher. And she is a Sonny Bono historian and so am I. So we were meant to meet then we continued, [00:03:00] talking about music and she found it amusing and interesting that I met and worked with a lot of the people in her record collection, like a lot of the artists that she really loves. And so we were having discussions about that and we both decided, wouldn’t it be cool t o write all these names down on little slips of paper and throw ‘em into a hat, and then we turn the tape recorder on, or, or whatever technology you wanna, you want to use these days. And she would randomly pull the names out of the hat. And with no preparation at all, I would respond with a story about that person.

So we decided just as a demo, let’s, let’s, you know, record and see what happens. And we ended up recording for three hours and she pulled out something like 21 names. And we were really surprised at, like how, how much we got out of it and we were amused, but, you know, we’re always amused by ourselves, so we figured let’s play this for other people and see if, if we got something and then the reaction we got was really enthusiastic and we decided to cut it together and turn it into a podcast. Which we did, and we had [00:04:00] these 45 minute episodes. We have 12 of them in the can. And, , we just came, just landed in the, um, in, in the world on January 22nd. Three episodes are now available, which apparently you’ve listened to, which I appreciate.

DJ: I’m all caught up

Ben: Yeah, yeah. And we have a new one. You know, a new one comes out every two weeks.

DJ: on Thursdays, right? I think,

Ben: Yeah, exactly.

DJ: Well, I love that. I love that Laura, you know, digs old music. You know, I was that way too. I mean, I think you, I’m sure you were too, but even at her age, I was really interested in a lot of that stuff. I really love, I just thought it was cool that you and Laura bonded over your shared love of Sonny Bono’s career , me being a big fan of girl groups, uh, even from like a young age.

I had learned years ago that. Sonny and Cher were among the backing vocalists on “Be My Baby”, one of the greatest songs ever recorded. But I’m sure your knowledge of Sonny’s career is probably vast compared to mine.

Ben: Yeah, it’s um, and it’s not, you know, it’s not appreciated. Enough in this world, [00:05:00]Sonny’s career. And so Laura and I, uh, you know, we bonded because we, we really feel that, the world needs to know more about Sonny Bono. It’s a strange thing to bond over her. But, but she also really loves, uh, she also really loves Bob Lind and really likes Rod McKuen and all these people.

And I’ve worked, I’ve met and worked with all these people, you know, so, uh, it was a natural thing for, There to be an oral history of my experiences with these people. And not only just my experiences, but like our mutual, uh, appreciation of them to be, to be recorded too. So not only is my experience with these artists part of the podcast, but her appreciation of them is very interesting as well.

So we’re, we’re kind of promoting these people we love

DJ: That’s good. I

Ben: the end.

DJ: Well, two more things ’cause I’m not ready to walk away from Sonny Bono yet. But just two quick things.

Ben: You know, oddly enough, oddly enough, neither am I.

DJ: Well, another, another early ’60s favorite of mine is “Needles and Pins”, co-written by Sonny and, uh, Jack Nitzsche. Uh, De Shannon claims she [00:06:00] contributed to the writing as well. I don’t know, you know, your thoughts on that? 

Ben: Uh, you know, that’s, that’s a controversy that, um. That will never be solved. Uh, you know, I I, I I will say this though, that “Needles and Pins”, ‘bap-badda-bap-bap-baa…’ kind of invented folk rock. And it was before folk rock. Like if you hear what, what, what, what they’re doing, what that song, and then listen to what , The Byrds did year later. It kind of invented that thing that led to, “I Got You Babe”. by, by Sonny and Cher, really. Which is a folk rock, slash Phil Spector Wall of Sound record. it all begins with “Needles and Pins”, that kind of jangly thing. And, and, and just as a guitar player, actually, I have a guitar right here.

I’ll show you what I, oh, I’ll show you what I mean. Hopefully, hopefully it’s in tune, but this hole,

DJ: Oh, absolutely.

Ben: That folk rock is based on that, and it began with “Needles and Pins”. So, uh, I, I rest my case.

DJ: [00:07:00] Well, yeah. And the three… I’m so glad you talked about that. ’cause I’ve mentioned this to people before. There’s at least three songs that have that, you know, the “Needles and Pins”. What you just played is, you hear it on “Needles and Pins”, you hear it on “Feel a Whole Lot Better” by The Byrds. I contend that you hear it on Michael Nesmith, on The Monkees, uh, “Tapioca Tundra”.

Um, yeah, go back and listen to “Tapioca Tundra” and you hear that same hook. It’s great.

Ben: Yeah, I think it’s also, uh, also the, the Love version of “Hey Joe”.

DJ: Oh yeah. Yeah, I would,

Ben: Or some, some or some or maybe The Leaves. It might be The Leaves’ version of “Hey Joe”, they, you know that that was the lick and there are only two, two chords. You can play it on. Either an A or a D.

DJ: D is how I usually play it.

Ben: Yeah, that, that, that was a, what I did, uh, it, it’s a suspended fourth and Folk Rock is based on that.

And, uh, Sonny Bono and Jack Nitzsche. It would not have been possible without those guys.

DJ: Yeah. The last thing I wanna say about [00:08:00] Sonny, um, I love that The Skeletons covered his song “Laugh at Me” with Lou Whitney on vocals.

Ben: Oh, I love that record. I love, I love their cover of that. Yeah,

DJ: on “In the Flesh”.

Ben: and that’s a great song too, Sonny Bono. ’cause. Uh, he, you know, he mentions “The Man Upstairs” in that song, you know, which, which is, is like my, my favorite nickname for God.

DJ: It’s, it’s perfect.

Ben: It is The Man Upstairs.

DJ: And it’s very Lou Whitney too, so, yeah.

Ben: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It, it, it fit him perfectly. Even though Sonny wrote that he was inspired to write that when he got kicked out of a fancy restaurant for looking weird.

DJ: Right. But you can just hear that’s something. It’s a thing Lou Whitney would say, but yeah, it’s funny.

Ben: Yeah. Yeah.

DJ: . Well, you always have a lot of great stories and trivia about songs that you play on The Many Moods, and I’m loving that you go into even greater detail about songs and bands and artists on Straight from the Hat. There have already [00:09:00] been a lot of revelations to me on the show. Uh, some of those are ones I feel I should have known since I’m always looking up the backstory on bands and musicians, but I was unaware that Ed King, the same Ed King of Lynyrd Skynyrd was the guitarist in Strawberry Alarm Clock.

Ben: Yes, yes. See, we should get an educational grant for this podcast based, based on that piece of information. I, I’ve had so many people say that to me, and, and I, it’s, it’s a mindblower to me. ’cause I thought everybody knew that. But, uh, yeah, ed King was in Strawberry Alarm Clock. He’s on “Incense and Peppermints” and then he, uh, ended up in, in Lynyrd Skynyrd.

And he was a southern California guy, so he was not. A, guy from, uh, you know, Tallahassee, Florida.

DJ: Right. Well, if you ever mentioned that bit of trivia on The Many Moods, I guess I missed it. But yeah, it was just, that was news to me and I was like, wow, I gotta, I gotta look all this up. Well, I’m already sort of anticipating or maybe [00:10:00] guessing at least a few of the bands and artists that might pop up on Straight From the Hat.

And I realize you might prefer to just keep listeners in suspense about who might come out of the hat. but I know we discovered a while back that you and I have a shared love of The Kinks. We have a shared love of Brinsley Schwarz. Uh, I don’t know, like all that to say. I am just kind of waiting j ust to see, ’cause it’s, you know, I love what you’ve done so far, and I just know there’s gonna be some grilled gems that pop up and come outta the hat.

Ben: Yeah, and it’s random too because, you know, we have a lot of names that were in the hat and a lot of names that have not been picked out yet. So it wasn’t chosen in any kind of order of priority or, you know, headliners and then, uh, you know, opening acts or anything. It was like whatever she picked out is what I talked about.

So some of the, some of the names that I know a lot about haven’t even been picked out yet. So, It looks like we’re probably gonna go into a second season of this, or whatever you want to call it in the podcast world, I’m not sure. [00:11:00] But, because the, the reaction has been really good. We’re, we’re, we’re getting a really good reaction.

So we’re probably gonna keep recording new episodes and eventually, uh, one of your favorites or someone someone’s favorite will, will be chosen.

DJ: Right. Well, I love all the posts of you, playing songs out in the wilderness. Uh, I just get such a bang out of, you know, seeing those pop up in your feed. would you say most of those are from like a running list of ideas you have or that pop into your head, or are they sometimes just very impulsive and you think I’m gonna go grab my guitar and go out and do a video out in the, out in the outdoors.

Ben: Well, it depends on how windy it

DJ: Oh,

Ben: Really,

DJ: That would be 

Ben: Because, uh, oh yeah, because, uh, you, the distortion you get and it gets windy out there a lot. So if I wake up in the morning and I go and I walk out and it’s not windy, I’m like, Ooh, I’m gonna record a song before it gets windy. So it’s, it’s definitely, it’s definitely weather inspired. So, uh, anytime [00:12:00] you see me, uh, standing out in behind my house. With, with, you know, miles of, of nothing behind me. Um, ‘cause ‘cause I seriously, my, my house, once you go one mile east of my house, electricity ends for 80 miles.

DJ: Oh wow.

Ben: I am at the end of the grid, completely at the end of the grid. And, uh, You can’t see my nearest neighbors. You really can’t. I’m, I’m, I’m really out, out there. I’m not there right now. Right now I’m in Santa Monica. but, um, yeah, so, you know, it’s funny. That happened, uh, that started during lockdown because during, you know, I’m a performer. I’ve been performing since I was 12 years old, you know, and, uh, I, my entire life, the interaction between myself and audiences has been part of my life, you know?

And when lockdown happened that was not here for performers, we were all of a sudden confronted with the, with, you know, with the fact that, wow, we’re not gonna do any gigs and it looks like it’s gonna be for a long time, you know? And, uh, people started posting videos and I was, and [00:13:00]they, and they were, they were working out the kinks, you know, I wasn’t there yet.

I wasn’t ready. But they were working out the kinks as far as what kind of background they were gonna use and, and everything. I was thinking the same thing too, and then, then all of a sudden I thought, hold it. I have the entire desert. I have a natural background,

DJ: what a great backdrop.

Ben: and when it’s not windy, the acoustics are completely flat.

There’s no reverberation at all. So I don’t need a fancy mic. I can just use the microphone on the phone

DJ: Hmm.

Ben: and, and this natural background that’s real. It looks like a painting, but it’s really real. Just walk out there and sing a song and put it on the internet. So I was really lucky that I, I had a, um, like a natural, uh, outdoor studio for my videos and it was fun to do.

I.

DJ: It works great and I really enjoy those. Yeah, it’s funny, I guess, you know, when I first started, uh, this podcast was very shortly after all of that, after lockdown, and a lot of [00:14:00] the conversation would turn to, you know, guests on the show talking about. How they dealt with it. Some of that being, you know, just kind of posting from their home or whatever.

But also they were all collaborating. You know, they would record one thing and then Dropbox it to somebody, another musician they were working with, and they, you know, they kept kind of going the best way they could. or you know, some of them even doing like online. Zoom, you know, videos with split screen and stuff like that.

But yeah, it was a very bizarre period.

Ben: It’s hard to believe it even happened. I, I, I, I, I think that as a culture we are, choosing not to remember what that was like. You know, every now and then I’ll have a conversation with someone. And you know, lockdown comes up and then we look at each other like, hold it. Did that really happen? Or was that some kinda weird shared dream?

Because it doesn’t seem like it was real. Especially now. ’cause you know, we’re all doing, we’re all back to doing. I never thought we would be back to doing the same stuff we did before lockdown. It seemed like it [00:15:00] life was over forever. You know?

At least a social life, you know.

we’re going to gigs. You know, like I was at a gig, it was so packed, and I was thinking, wow, you know, there was a moment where I thought I’d never be in a room with this many people

DJ: Yep. Right.

Ben: without masks on. So it’s cool. Uh, we’re, we’re back.

DJ: . Well, even with your very busy schedule now hosting two podcasts, you’ve continued to write and record music and still play live gigs. Now that we, uh, like you said, can again, and this is, this is going back a couple years now I think, but you went to Hawaii for a gig. I think The Many Moods airs on an AM station in Hawaii.

And did that have something to do with the that gig?

Ben: Um, no, I’m not on the air in Hawaii. I’m on the air in Alaska.

uh, but I’ve been, I did play in Hawaii for the first time and, and you know, it’s funny, in the last two years I finally played, I finally went to Alaska and Hawaii, two places. I, I, that’s the only two states. ’cause I used to tour a lot back in the eighties and early nineties, and I’ve played in every state.

[00:16:00] I’ve been to every state except for Alaska and Hawaii. And now those, I’m, I’m done, you know. But yeah, my, my radio show is on two stations in Alaska. One of them is on am and I went up there to visit those stations and, uh, and hang out. Have you ever been to Alaska?

DJ: I have not. I’ve been to Hawaii one time, but no, I have never been to Alaska.

Ben: It’s great up there. It’s, it is like 1979. Uh, it’s almost 1980 up there. just, you know, the, the decor, what the buildings look like, the interior and exterior buildings just feels like. America felt right before 1980. Uh, it’s hard to describe. It’s hard to describe, but it, I, I really like it and people are so friendly up there.

So friendly.

DJ: I would imagine when I, when I think of Alaska, I think of Northern Exposure and that’s the, the kind of people I imagine living there.

Ben: That, that is not that far off.

DJ: Yeah. Great show. Well, more recently, uh, last year you did a show with Peter Holsapple at The Palms.

Ben: That was great. I hadn’t seen Peter in, I don’t [00:17:00] know how long it had been, probably since the early nineties. We had not been in the same room together. We’ve been communicating on Facebook and appreciating, you know, each other, you know. I love that guy. You know what’s really great about his new record is he sounds so young on that record.

His voice shows no signs , of being, you know, older than he was when he, when he recorded with The dB’s back in the day. and he plays a lot of league guitar on that record too. It’s a great record.

DJ: Yeah, The Face of 68. I would absolutely agree. It’s, it’s a great, great record. well, Peter has also been on Frets twice now, and I absolutely love talking with him. He has so many great stories and always tells them with such enthusiasm. You can tell he really just truly loves not only playing music, but he’s somebody that like talks about his favorite bands with such.

Like passion. I mean, he’s, he’s so into so many bands and just what a great guy I could, I could talk to him all day.

Ben: Yeah, we, we discovered something about each [00:18:00] other. We were both members, like, uh, we, we both ended up as a temporary member of Gun Club and Panther Burns.

DJ: Oh.

Ben: I was the drummer for Gun Club one night and I was the drummer for Panther Burns one night, and he played guitar, I believe in both of those groups, but only one night. Only one night. It was like, call Holsapple. You know, call Vaughn like, it’s like, you either call Holsapple or Vaughn when you’re in trouble.

We show up, you know, it was an interesting thing to find out about each other, but, uh, playing a show with him was great. He was so good live. And, and played that new material and uh, yeah, it was really great seeing him again.

DJ: Yeah, I would love to see him play a show. Actually, the last time I ever saw him, perform was, uh, when The Continental Drifters were still going, and I saw them at a small club in St. Louis here.

Ben: That’s a long time ago.

DJ: So I really am behind on, uh, seeing Peter play live.

Ben: Yeah.

.

DJ: . Well, what’s coming up for Ben Vaughn?

Any other new projects or tours or [00:19:00] albums in the works, or do you have enough going on as it is with the shows?

Ben: Well, I recorded an album. It’s coming out in October where I’m backed up by a band called Deer Tick.

DJ: Oh yeah.

Ben: They’re pretty, pretty popular, uh, indie rock band from Rhode Island. And I went up to their studio in Rhode Island and they backed me up and we, we cut an album and it’s coming out in October and I’m gonna be, uh, back on the road in America.

I’ll probably, I’ll probably be coming to St. Louis. I actually, I know I’ll be coming to St. Louis at some point. Uh, and playing shows home. I, you know, I haven’t toured America in a really, really long time. And, um, like I tour in Europe a lot. I, I, I have a popularity over there that has, uh, stayed with me, you know, like a loyal audience.

And, uh, but America, I haven’t done much touring, so I’m gonna be out on the road starting in October with a brand new record.

DJ: That’s great. I’m, I’m excited to hear that and, uh, you know, look forward to a fall show in St. Louis, which will be fantastic.

Ben: Yeah. Yeah.

DJ: Well, Ben [00:20:00] Vaughn, it is always a pleasure talking to you, whether it be over the phone or on a sidewalk in Santa Monica.

Ben: Yeah, same. Same. I, uh, I hope to see you again in person soon.

DJ: St. Louis.

Ben: Yeah. St. Louis or Santa Monica, one or the

DJ: Yeah, I get, uh, get out there occasionally, so just might be a walking down Main Street.

Ben: Santa is Spanish for Saint, so Santa Louis.

DJ: Yeah, it’s…

Ben: St. Saint Monica.

DJ: Absolutely. Well, Ben, thanks so much.

Ben: You are welcome. I really enjoyed it. Take care. Alright, bye.

Hello. I’m Ben Vaughn, the host of The Many Moods of Ben Vaughn and Straight From the Hat, a brand new podcast and you are listening to [00:21:00] Frets with DJ Fey.

Ben: I’m a, I’m, you know, I am a, um, a radio professional, you know,

DJ: That’s right. Hey, you know, you’re no Smith Harrison, but you’re,

Ben: I do. He’s a, he is a real guy. He is a real guy.

DJ: All right. You know what I’m looking

Ben: If I could play like him, I would tell everybody how great I was all day long. I wouldn’t be, I wouldn’t be able to hide it. I’d be so excited to be that good on guitar. I would just, Hey man, listen to this.

DJ: He is so fantastic.