Welcome to the first Frets episode of 2026. The song you’re hearing now is “Wasted Wonderland” from Bob Collum’s album Little Rock. Wasted Wonderland also serves as the title of a great compilation of his songs. Bob, a singer-songwriter and guitarist, grew up in Tulsa, Oklahoma, then spent a couple years in Chicago before making a big change. In 2001, he moved to the UK. Bob’s music had already been getting airplay in Europe and not long after moving there, he formed The Welfare Mothers. He also made a lot of friends and connections in England’s music community. The list of artists Bob has supported include Dave Alvin, Ron Sexsmith, The Handsome Family, John Wesley Harding, Robbie Fulks, Marshall Crenshaw, Alejandro Escovedo, Amy Rigby, Robert Earle Keen, and Wilko Johnson. He continues to write, record and perform with his current group, simply referred to as…The Bob Collum Band. His music is great – It’s UK Americana, but you can hear slices of Western Swing from his time in Tulsa and hours spent at Cain’s Ballroom, . Stay tuned for – an interview with Bob Collum.

[00:00:00] 

DJ: Bob Collum, we have been talking about doing this for quite a while now, and here we are. Thanks so much for doing this. 

Bob: It’s my pleasure, man. It’s also, it’s a real pleasure to be following in the footsteps of the guests that you’ve had. You’ve had some amazing quality of guests. I gotta tell you, it’s, it’s a true honor.

DJ: It’s been great. I, without going into the long history, yeah. It started with me just talking to local musicians and then, I don’t know, I was very fortunate that some of them, a lot of them had connections to people kind of all over and they said, Hey, you should talk to so and so. So. And, uh, we will get to, there’s a topic related to that that I wanna talk to you about later on. So are you currently living in Essex or London, or where exactly?

Bob: Yeah. I live, um, you know, if, if this, if London was New York, I’d be living in Newark.

DJ: Gotcha.

Bob: Kind of proximity to London. Yeah. I’ve been here since, um, 2001. Yeah. And I’m actually, I actually had getting my citizenship in February, which this may be aired by then. [00:01:00] Uh, but yes, so, um, yeah,

DJ: A quarter of a century.

Bob: Yeah, and it’s hard to believe, it’s hard to believe I was a, a wee child when I moved here. Actually. No, it’s kind of funny. I was thinking about this the other day as, um, my ex-wife, who’s my son’s mother’s British, and we decided to move over here and we found out we were gonna have them. ’cause the, Bush election had just happened. We thought, do you know, America is never gonna be this crazy.

They were never gonna make a mistake like this again. We’ll just go right out a few years back in England. Then we’ll move back when things settle down, and I’m still here.

DJ: And…

Bob: Years later.

DJ: And look where we are. Wow. Well, let’s travel back in time to when you were living in the States. I know you moved from Tulsa to the UK in the early two thousands as you just

Bob: Yeah. I was in Chicago for a little while as well, uh, before I came here. So it was kind of, I followed, I followed the path North and then did a hard right. Basically, yeah. 

DJ: Well I love Chicago too. And I love Tulsa.

Bob: Great city group.

DJ: But were you originally from Tulsa or,

Bob: Yeah. I was born, um, yeah, I was [00:02:00] born in actually Claremore, which is a, a suburb, uh, well, not a suburb. It’s a, about, you know, half an hour drive from Tulsa. But I grew up, I grew up in Tulsa itself. Yeah. It was my, you know, my hometown.

DJ: Nice. Well, when you were a kid, what music do you remember hearing, like, at that young age? What was the first thing you kind of sparked to, or, or remember hearing?

Bob: It’s, it’s interesting, there was a TV show in Tulsa on, on the channel on the ABC affiliate called the John Chick Show. That was on at six, six in the morning every Friday. And I was probably about three or so. I have these very early memories of requesting to watch that show. And what it was, it was a local kind of TV personality who would get his friends, and they usually would play bluegrass type stuff for half an hour in the morning. And I loved that. And, um, they were doing songs that like my grandmother would sing to me and like, “Crawdad Song” by The Carter Family , and things like that. So that, that was my initial, like, wow, this is actually cool. Guitars are very cool, you know. Wow. And, um, my grandparents were, you know, they, they raised me and they were like, You know, they, they’re depression era folks, so their musical taste [00:03:00] kind of was exactly what is hip to have, you know, now as they were into the Carter family, my granddad was a huge Bob Wills fan. I think my grandmother actually saw Jimmie Rodgers at one point when she was a little girl. So I had this, this, this was kind of my, what was going on around me. So, when everybody else was listening, you know, to Kiss and Cheap Trick, I was surrounded by, you know, that kind of stuff, which served me well later on. Not that I didn’t love, you know, Cheap Trick and stuff, but, uh, later on. But when I was a kid, that was the, seminal influence. But probably the, the kind of the, um, the eureka moment was in kindergarten. I don’t know if in school, when you were in school they would do this, but like every few weeks they would say, you can bring a record to class. And uh, so, um, a kid brought in, an Elvis 45 with, “I Want You, I Need You” on it. And, and I heard that and went. Stop. Wait man, this, what is this? You know, what is this? And I was just transfixed. So I , had my grandma take me local record shop, and I bought, um, I think I bought, “Can’t Help Falling In Love” and “Hula Baby” on the flip side, that single. And I was like, [00:04:00] this is my, this is me. And then like within a year he was dead. I was just like, no, I found my thing and it’s gone. And then so it was like, it was a real, and then it led to, you know, Buddy Holly, the Hank Williams. And then I realized everybody I like is dead. I’ve gotta start liking living people.

DJ: But in those days you mentioned, you know, sparking to hearing, you know, guitar music. Was, was guitar the first instrument you learned?

Bob: Well, it was the first instrument I ever owned. I, um, had an uncle who was a, who picked a little bit. He bought me and a cousin like little Sears acoustics when we were maybe, you know, four or five years old. So that was always, always like in the corner of the room. Usually just used to mime to Elvis records in the mirror, but it was always there. And, I remember like when the music bug really started hitting me, you know, like I thought, I wonder if I can pick out a me, you know, some kind of melody on it. And however the guitar was tuned, I don’t know what, what it had settled into, but if I hit the, the E, B and G strings, it sounded like the [00:05:00] beginning of “Words of Love” by Buddy Holly. And I was like, oh. Oh, and then just, you know, I play, I, I had a very brief career as a trombone player in junior high school, and then I decided I needed a guitar and got the, um, you know, the, like everybody else. I got the Mel Bay book and just started learning E Minor.

DJ: I think I’ve talked about this before, but Mel Bay was from here and he was a, he had, when I was a teenager my and my dad knew him. I guess there was like some connection, well, my dad was a harmonic, my dad was a harmonica player and…

Bob: Yeah.

DJ: …he ended up, when I first got really interested as a young teen and playing, I took some local lessons on Saturdays for a little while. But then, um. Yeah. One day, I can remember this very clearly. My dad on a weekend took me up to, uh, Mel Bay’s guitar shop in Kirkwood, Missouri. And, uh, he happened to be there that day. Um, and I mean, boy, talk about somebody who made a, a lot of money off of those instruction books

Bob: He sure did, man. It’s, um, [00:06:00] you know, here they have the, uh, Bert Weedon was the guy that put all the instruction books out. He was like a, a, guitar player you might see on, you know, on the Lawrence Welk type shows here. But everybody learned from the Bert Weedon playing a day book, which was equivalent to our Mel Bay guitar. It’s like they was, but it was like magic, wasn’t it? If you remember that first E minor chord and then you did that to a C and you went, oh my God, and the G and then,

DJ: Yeah, the transitions, you’re like, wow. It’s like these aha moments, like, oh, okay,

Bob: And I bought like a, I bought like a, I bought like a Paul McCartney, Mel Bay Paul McCartney book and could almost play “Junior’s Farm”. The F was very difficult. I could almost play “Junior’s Farm” and, and then that day you realize that the 1-4-5 chord could be done in any key was another massive breakthrough. 

DJ: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bob: Just all the, you know, all those, that’s, I think that’s what we lose is as we get older and we get more, you know, I don’t wanna say better, but as we, as we learn, as we get more technique and stuff, is, is that sense of, oh my God, I just discovered this,

DJ: Right.

Bob: Which is like, vital to music.

I [00:07:00] think we always have to find ways to have that. I think I just discovered something new kind of feeling, which, which we don’t discover anything, but it, it’s that great feeling of something that, we can do now that we couldn’t do before.

DJ: So yeah, so junior high age, junior high, high school, teen years in that period of time, what were some of your favorite bands at that point?

Bob: Well, it was really weird ’cause my, my, my mom was still around, but she, uh, she’d stopped listening to music. You know, I’d go to visit her every once in a while and I’d see her, remember those old wire record racks that everybody had that sat on top of the, you know, the table or something. And I just noticed, and boy, those are some pretty cool looking. What are those? And I found, um, Introducing The Beatles on the, you know, the VeeJay album and Over Under, Sideways Down, you know, that, that Yardbirds album and like, uh, Waylon Jennings, The Taker album. So I was like, if you’re not having these, can I, can I bear with these? And it was like, this is incredible. And, you know, then…

DJ: I had an epiphany with The Yardbirds. I.

Bob: Well, yeah, that whole kind of, um, the, the [00:08:00] British invasion stuff was like, again, it was like another door open a few years later then, you know, it happened. But, it was just like, bam right there. It was, uh, a. Kind of the next step. You know, the literally, and, figuratively, it was the next step into like, okay, they’re seeing some really great sounds happening here, and these, these guitars are very cool sounding. And I remember the very first day I heard the word Rickenbacker, a cousin of mine said, oh, that, he’s playing a Rickenbacker. And I thought, I’m gonna remember that.

DJ: Yeah.

Bob: And um, but yeah, it was like a, again, it was like a, a whole new world. And the great thing about all that stuff, I don’t think people who are under, who, who like our, our generation’s probably the last one to, to go. Oh, you, oh yeah. It is like, you heard like The Beatles, but you still heard Buck Owens, you know, in The Beatles you heard it referenced, that stuff that you really liked. So it was like, it was comfortable in that way.

DJ: Yeah, there were so many, like of course The Beatles, they played quite a bit of country covers, and I know George Harrison loved, you know, Chet Atkins.

Bob: Yeah. 

DJ: And all those guys. And then of course, [00:09:00] you know, The Stones like Beggars Banquet is so, I mean, very, very country. yeah, it’s just, I could go on and on and of course my beloved Kinks, I mean, they really

Bob: Oh yes.

DJ: That whole country thing. They loved it.

Bob: That’s what’s great about, about living in here is that, you’re like, it’s like you’re living in Kinks songs.

DJ: Yeah.

Bob: It’s incredible how, how things that you would li were sounded so exotic when you’re listening to Something Else or Face to Face. Or, Muswell Hillbillies, when you’re a kid, all these extremely exotic things now are just part of everyday life, you know? Uh, and I, they’re such an important rider and, well, the whole band. ’cause I mean, come on, the whole band was brilliant. But, um, discovering Ray Davies, and again, I can have this vivid memory of Christmas in 1985. Finding Something Else in a cutout at a Sam Goody or a shop and taking it home and listening to it and going, this is incredible stuff. You know, what, what is this? This is, this is mysterious and absolutely mesmerizing. And it had a real good heart to it, you know? It was, it was emotional stuff. So that, to me, when I hear The Kinks, I [00:10:00] think Christmas music, ’cause that, that Christmas ’85 was basically spent listening to The Kinks.

DJ: That’s great.

Bob: Uh,

DJ: Well, how old were you when you first joined a band or maybe you formed your own group?

Bob: I think I, I, I did kind of, um. I had a friend that played drums in high school and we used to go to his house and just play, you know, um, the two of us. ’cause uh, I had seen a, or I’d owned a, that John Goldrosen Buddy Holly book, and he talked about him and Jerry Allison. Where they’d just get together and the two of ’em would play. So we would just get together and play. And I think we talked a friend and to learning bass, we could be into talent show, you know? And, um, and it was after, it was just kind of doing that in, in high school. Nothing serious. , It was after I got outta school and by that time I had discovered a lot of other stuff, you know, uh, I just, around the same time as The Beatles, I got into Dylan and, um, this kind of, the, the more singer, you know, singer songwriting type thing, which led, you know, like to discovering like, um, Elvis Costello.

And I thought, oh, okay. And what, what, what, discovering people like Elvis. And, and Dylan and stuff is he thought, okay, you [00:11:00] don’t actually have to have a band to put a song across. you can be, a guy with a guitar and put a song across and not be like a folk singer, but just a, you know. And then I saw Elvis at Cain’s Ballroom in Tulsa in ’87 when he was doing The Confederates tour. And part of that show was acoustic, just him. And it blew me away about how strong you can, how strong an artist can be, just with a guitar, putting the song across to an audience. And, um, so after school I thought, , I’m gonna do that. So I spent a couple of years opening for every band I could find that would have me open up for him, and learned a lot about, about how not to do it. And, uh, it was only, it was only mean, it was about 20. I, I formed a band in Tulsa called The Legendary Hitchhiker, which was of course taken from the Elvis song, you know, but, uh. That it, um, that I started getting into the, the idea of doing the band thing. And I really enjoyed that. We were together for about two or three years, had some success. You know, we, I got to, to meet some people, like, you know, um, like Phil Seymour, who played with Dwight Twilley, was a, was a friend of the bands. And it was a good time, a good learning. [00:12:00] You know, I was with old musicians, were a few years older, very, you know, um, nurturing kind of guy. So I learned a lot about how to make records with, but that, when that band broke up like a, you know, like most young bands do, uh, went back to the singer songwriter thing, but it was that whole process of, um, of, uh, it was always, it was always really conscious about how it was about the song. It was always about the song and how do you put a song across the people? And that was, that was a consistent through all that stuff.

DJ: Well, when I was flashing back when you were talking about, uh, well, for one, finding out how much he loved Elvis Costello. But I saw him, I made a road trip to, uh, Cain’s. It was my first time going. I had a friend who was living in Tulsa, 

Bob: Yeah. 

DJ: I made the road trip down there to see him. Uh, I’m trying to remember what year. It’s been quite a while now. But anyway, uh, Jim Lauderdale was in his band. Um,

Bob: Oh yeah. Yeah.

DJ: It was such a, I mean, what, what a cool venue right off the bat. I mean, the, the home of Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys,

Bob: Well when you, when you’re a kid, when you’re a kid in Tulsa playing music, that’s kind of like, [00:13:00] if you can do that, you’re happy. You know, it was like that first time you played Cain’s, you go, I dunno how much more I need to do than this. I’ve done, you know, I’ve actually played on this stage, and, and it’s a, it’s a, it’s really great and it is a great venue and I’m, I’m so glad it’s, it’s stronger than ever now.

DJ: Yeah. I need to get back down there. I do get the, you know, emails or whatever just to talking about who’s coming there, or I guess, you know, social posts, you’re always talking about , who’s coming up at Cain’s.

Bob: Well, Tulsa’s interesting place to grow up musically. It was back now, I think it’s a lot more accommodating all around, but I grew up in that bit of time that was post JJ Cale and Leon Russell. So there was a real, almost like vacuum after that where a lot of players were either burned out or had moved away and, a lot of the younger people didn’t wanna kind of look back and acknowledge the history, you know. But I was always interested in Leon Russell and JJ Cale. I was interested in the church studios and Wow. You know, Tom Petty, the Heartbreakers recorded here. Oh my god. You know, George Harrison hung out here. So, [00:14:00] um, that, that was, it was very difficult then to come, like You, you know, you appreciated the past, but it was very difficult to find anything remained from that past around. And that’s what’s really great about, I think, nowadays is, is that Tulsa’s really, really embraced that stuff. You know, it’s embraced that period of the music and its history. I mean, I read the, uh, that great great Leon Russell book that came out a couple years ago and while he was renovating his mansion, he lived in the house about a quarter of a mile from where I grew up.

DJ: Oh wow.

Bob: So I had, Leon Russell was, was a 10 minute walk from where I grew up and I had no, I had no idea.

DJ: I love those pictures of him from back in the early studio days with his hair was a lot shorter. He looked more, I don’t wanna say clean cut ’cause, uh, but, you know, but I mean, he was just a very different look than when he became, and I also loved his look when he had, you know, hair passed his shoulders…

Bob: Oh, he, I, I, it was really weird. I was in Nashville in the mid nineties. I was eating a restaurant on, uh, Music Row. There was like a, it was really weird. , It was [00:15:00] like an Indian restaurant that was, um, you paid for what you got. You just, they weighed your plate, you know, very basic tables, very basic bench tables across the room. So, um, I sit down, this guy walks in and went, holy moly, said that can’t be, and, uh, in a white suit, beard cane, sunglasses hat, cowboy hat. He came down, got his food, and sat down next to me. He took his sunglasses off. I’m like, oh my God. That’s, that’s Leon Russell. I didn’t know what to say. I just, I, I don’t know what to say to Leon Russell at this point besides, you know, it was in incredible. And his eyes, his eyes, man, we took those sunglasses off. He was like, oh my god. You know, it’s Leon.

DJ: That is wild. Well, fast forward a little to when you did make the decision to move to the uk. Like, like how long? I mean, I know you probably had to get settled and everything, but how long was it before you formed The Welfare Mothers?

Bob: Well it was pretty quick. It was interesting. I, I knew when I moved here that, um, my previous stuff had always done well in Europe. You know, Italy was a [00:16:00] really strong country back in the good old days of people buying stuff, you know, before the internet. Italy was great. Italy, Spain, and in the UK I was getting the airplay on Radio two. Uh, Bob Harris, who’s the big kind of Americana DJ over here, the guy that was the host of Old Grey Whistle Test was playing like it And at that time there was a really great strong live music scene here. So I got here, did a couple of solo shows. I, I’d played here before solo, but um, I decided, yeah, we get a band together and it wasn’t very difficult. It was within a few months I was able to find like-minded musicians. And, um, one of the great things about, um, about America, you know, it’s very difficult kinda these troubled times to, to, to understand this. But the culture of America, the music, film, books, all that stuff still resonates strongly with people all over the world. And, um, it, I didn’t have to cast my net far to find guys who knew who Lucinda Williams were, who understood kinda that musical dialogue. So I found a, a drummer, Paul Corey, who, um, actually [00:17:00] has just left the band after 25 years. He’s, he’s usually got, he’s got his gold watch now, and, and we’ve, you know, he, um, but he’s, uh, uh. It was very simple to put a band together. We were very easy compared to like I had been experiencing in America.

DJ: And then, uh, was it Dan Wilkinson on bass? Is that…

Bob: Yeah, Dan was our first bass player. fantastic guy, lovely guy. Just saw him really recently, came to one of the gigs I haven’t seen him in a while. He’s still the same. He’s one of those brilliantly, consistently cool guys. Um, he brought like a really great kind of youthful energy ’cause he was the youngest member. We were originally a trio and he was a, it was really good. He was exactly what we needed at the time. Brilliant guy.

DJ: Well, I think you answered, well, you did sort of answer a question that I had for you. I was gonna say, you know, your band was playing a lot of gigs and then began to build up a following around the UK and also outside of England. But it sounds like it was a little bit, I mean, you were already, before you moved over there, like you guys were getting recognition.

Bob: Yeah. Yeah, it was, it was, [00:18:00] I think, the people that are into, I, I, I hate the whole, the tags and stuff, but kinda that Americana roots kind of scene were very keen and they, they would pick up the magazines like, um, no depression and, and see, you know, so getting mention of that stuff automatically got people pricked people’s ears up and, and, and so when I moved here, it wasn’t like I was an unknown quantity. It, it was, it was very nice.

DJ: That’s…

Bob: And, um, and a lot of it I have to, I have to think, you know, Missouri’s own, you know, Lou Whitney and, and the boys The Skeletons guys. ’cause, ’cause just being, just, you know, being associated with Dylan was, was this huge credibility thing. It was this big boost, you know, of of ’ cause ’cause I know Lou, I dunno if Lou knew, and, and I’ve talked to Donnie about this. I dunno if he understood exactly. People know who they are. You know,

DJ: It’s so crazy. I mean, I would see them in the early days, like a lot of people, I mean, you know, they were, you know, their loyal followers. We would, you would never miss a chance. Like if they were playing up here in St. Louis at a club, you’re, we were there. And then, yeah, it was just funny, like with Donnie, [00:19:00] I was like, I wish people knew. Like, how do people not know this guy? Like one of the greatest, most talented guitar players I’ve ever heard? And he did it with such ease and he, they had such a great sense of humor. And of course Lou was hilarious. Ugh.

Bob: Do you know what I learned from those guys? Besides, I learned a lot from them, but, um, is if you’re not having fun on stage, something’s wrong. You know, audiences want to see people enjoying themselves on stage. At heart. They want to see that you’re having a good time. And those guys are the kings of that. You know, I, I, I’ve, and Donnie Thompson should be. I, yeah. I’ve seen a lot of guitar players. I’ve seen a lot of guitar players. Nobody’s blown me away consistently. Like Donnie Thompson has, I think he is the most skilled. And by skilled, I don’t mean technically. I mean, he knows exactly what to play, where to play it.

DJ: Yeah.

Bob: Most tasteful guy.

DJ: I was very fortunate. I was, it is funny ’cause I said I used to see them many, many years ago and you know, occasionally when they were on break I’d maybe have a short chat with, you know, Lou or, [00:20:00] or Donnie. But I mean, that was years ago. And then this past fall when Donnie played down in, uh, the Ozarks where my friend Rick has his annual fall, weekend festival. It was so cool. I hung out quite a bit with Donnie. I get to talk to him quite a bit and,

Bob: Is that Rick? Rick Wood?

DJ: Wood. Yeah. Yeah.

Bob: Good guy. Good guy.

DJ: He is a good guy.

Bob: Donnie also is an amazing songwriter. I mean, he writes some great songs. I mean, that, that, um, the waiting album that they did, he, he, the songs are incredible. He does some really great, and then the follow up that was on, um, on HighTone, there’s some great writing on that.

DJ: Yeah. And on ”Waiting” they have their ode to St. Louis with the song Show Me the Way to St. Louis, so,

Bob: Which I love the, uh, through them, that’s how I found the Easybeats version, the original, I, I prefer The Skeletons to be honest. I think they, uh, they had actually been to St. Louis,

DJ: Yes. Uh,

Bob: I gotta say St. Louis was a big music town. For me, the [00:21:00] stepping thing playing St. Louis was like a whole other level when I started going out and, you know, playing down on the Landing or, or in the Loop or, you know, it was, um, it was like this, the first, you know, Memphis and St. Louis were the first quote unquote big cities, you know, like Wow. And, it was like, okay, I’m getting into bigger leagues now. I’m, I’m, you know, I’m having pizza at Cicero’s. This is pretty good.

DJ: Cicero’s, I worked right above it for a while at an ad agency, and they were, it was so tempting to during the day, just like, slide down the back steps and go to Cicero’s. Um,

Bob: That was, and the St. Louis music scene as well was, was really brilliant. I mean, I could go there any day of the week, you know, routing and find a gig in St. Louis because there was always, there were just so many places to play.

DJ: Yes. A lot of good venues. Uh, some sadly gone, but a lot of, great bands came outta here too, and we could talk about, you know. Donnie and Lou and The Morells and The Skeletons all day. But the one final thing I’ll say about that, you know, I guess we were talking about how, how do people not know? I mean, or do they know that, you know, this [00:22:00] band out of Springfield, Missouri. Do they realize? But yeah, in doing, you know, this podcast, so many people I’ve talked to all over the place, you know, all over the Oh, they know him. All right. You know, Eric Ambel talks about, you know, his days with

Bob: met e That’s, that’s where I first met Eric, was at Lou’s, the second studio he had, and he was producing the first Blue Mountain record.

DJ: Oh yeah. Yeah. And I used to go see, there’s another band like Blue Mountain. I would see them in small clubs around here. Um, anyway, like I said, we could go on and on and on and on and

Bob: Do you know, do you know this, do you know the story about London’s Calling album cover

DJ: the London Calling by The Clash?

Bob: Yeah. and, and Lou and, and Lloyd.

DJ: I guess. I do not know that.

Bob: Okay. ’cause they were with Forbert, right?

DJ: Yeah. Steve Forbert.

Bob: And this, this is, this is what Lou told me. So they were touring with Steve Forbert, who was on Columbia, where he was on, I think a, an uh, offshoot of Columbia. They were in New York and had the night off. So the band got passes to go see the Clash at, I can’t remember which venue it was. And Lou and Donnie were watching from the side of the stage, and [00:23:00] Lou said they were watching. He said, I think that guy’s gonna break that bass. And as they’re watching the photographer, I can’t remember who it was, it wasn’t Roberta Blakely, I can’t remember who. It might have been pushed through Lou and, and, and Lloyd, and got to the front to take the picture of Paul Simonon crashing his bass down.

DJ: Wow. They were in that moment. That’s, I did not know that story, and I love that story.

Bob: And they’re also in the movie, they’re in, uh, DOA at Cain’s Ballroom with The Sex Pistols. Is there. You can see, uh, Lou and Jim Wunderle.

DJ: Wow.

Bob: standing outside the, they’re, he, they’re the Zeligs of rock and roll.

DJ: That’s very…

Bob: I mean, it’s incredible.

DJ: Well, Donnie’s been on twice, so had done two episodes with Donnie and I think I, I’m, I’m just right now as we’re talking, I think someday I’m gonna do an entire, episode that’s just all about, you know, everything we know about, about Lou Whitney,

Bob: That’d be amazing. 

DJ: Donnie Thompson, Bobby Lloyd, and, uh, anyway, well we digress. Well, let’s get back to Bob Collum. Well, you released the first Welfare Mothers album, The Boy Most Likely To in what, [00:24:00] 2004?

Bob: Yeah, about that round then. Yeah,

DJ: Well, how do you feel the sound of that album? Do you think it differed from your previous recordings?

Bob: It did. I mean, I, I think the stuff I did in, in, back in, in Tulsa, the records I’ll cut there with, with Lou and the guys was definitely, um, you know, it was a, a, different feel. It was because they, as players, they knew how to any style and could, you know, they would hear you play at once and then they, they just had an arrangement in their heads. Um, so they did the heavy lifting to a certain extent with the forming my own band recording. There was a lot more of like needing to work the songs up, trying different things. because, you know, you, I was very luckily to play with those guys, who could come up with, anything on this, on the spot. So, um. It went, it was more of a trial and process to get to the arrangements and the recording. I gotta say we were extremely lucky to discover. I mean, one of the great things about, about you find out when you start doing this music thing, one of the, it blows your mind at first is like, boy, I really like that person. I wonder if, oh, I’d do [00:25:00] anything to what they’re in the phone book. You know, I can call them. Like, I would always admired Pat Collier, the producer, ’cause he, uh, had a great track record of working with songwriters like, like Robyn Hitchcock and, and The Soft Boys and The Men They Couldn’t Hang there. All these records that, that he had worked on, that I really admired.

And, and when it came time to think, okay, we’ve got enough songs to record now who do we do this with? I’m thinking, I wonder if Pat Collier’s. Can I find him? And I found his number and talked, got it on the phone with him and he was like, yeah, absolutely. Let’s do this. So, um, we had Pat there who became kinda like the next, font of, of, of knowledge and learning to work with because he was very old fashioned. He’d worked at Decca Records, uh, when he was younger, as a matter of fact, when he passed away, unfortunately, a year and a half ago. And it, his memorial went to his memorial at the 100 Club in London and um, his wife had put pictures on the wall from his career. And there was a picture with Pat, probably 20 years old with Bing Crosby who was cutting the session at Decca in London. And Pat engineered the session Bing Crosby. so this was a guy who, who, who was very old fashioned, [00:26:00] very much like Lou of those guys that, and he knew how to make rock and roll records, so I was very lucky we got into that. He cut out extraneous stuff and he was very much guitar, bass kind of rock and roll stuff. So that The Boy Most Likely To to get back to your question there is I think it’s a more streamlined kind of, um. almost Power Pop trio kind of approach to it, which, um, we went back for, we did the greatest hits a couple years ago, and I went back and with Pat and remixed a lot of that stuff. And it was really interesting to hear how like, oh my God, we played that three times faster than we would’ve ever play it.

Now, you know, that bridge should never be in that song. I don’t know what I was thinking. You know, it was, it, it’s crazy because on the way to the, the recording to the basic, the first day my car broke down, so we had to miss the first, we had two days to, to lay down basic tracks. We had to do all the basic tracks in one day.

And I think it benefited from that because we went in like The Beatles with “Please, Please Me”, and just banged it out.

DJ: Yeah.

Bob: Yeah.

DJ: You guys played around the UK, but also some festivals like the Borderline Festival in [00:27:00] Dublin, the Cambridge Folk Festival, and I think I’m getting this right too. You did go back to the States and play some, did you play South by Southwest?

Bob: I played South by Southwest in the nineties.

DJ: Oh, okay. So that was kind of…

Bob: Yeah. Back at, yeah. That was back with, um, yeah, that was, that was a great experience. I made lifelong friends there and that, that was the beauty of what South by Southwest was. It was meeting Peter Holsapple and John Wesley Harding and, and Peter Case and these people that, you know, you still know today and, and you just met them at, um, south by, I mean, the great, one of the greatest thrills of my life was meeting Bob Neuwirth at South by Southwest. He’s like, he’s like, gimme your phone number. And, um, one day I get home from work, blink on the old, the answering machine. It was, Hey, it’s Bob Neuwirth, just checking in with you. You’re just like, wow. You know, that kind of thing. And that was the beauty of South by Southwest. I really missed that. But we, yeah, we haven’t been back to the States to play actually since, since I moved here. Definitely not gonna be, definitely be a while before I come back [00:28:00] for, to, to play, but, um…

DJ: I don’t blame you. Sorry.

Bob: It’s interesting. It’s interesting ’cause uh, I know a lot of people think like, you know, you play at Cambridge Folk Festival, that must be the biggest thrill, blah, blah. Those gigs generally aren’t your most fun gigs.

Um, you know, the best gigs are the ones where that you, where you hit that kind of like that um, cruising altitude feeling where it’s like, okay, this is comfortable. It feels good, I’m enjoying this and it doesn’t happen, you know? Consistently. it’s just the you, those moments, you never know where they’re gonna come. And, and unfortunately, it’s like, usually there’s stuff involved from like a, a big gig because you go and it’s like, oh, we stage time this, blah, blah, blah. You can’t be, this has to be set up, you know, line, line checks. You actually get a sound check. It’s just a quick line check. You are using an amplifier that you have no idea what it’s gonna be like. And then they, they go right outta your head as well. You don’t remember much. You savor the, the, the moments. And, and you know, I’m sure The Beatles loved Shea Stadium. I’m sure they enjoyed that. I’ve not, not had the same big gig [00:29:00] experience is.

DJ: Well you recruited, uh, B. J. Cole for pedal steel on, uh, at least one album, maybe a couple?

Bob: Yeah. B. J., uh, yes, he’s played on, he’s, we’ve done gigs with B. J. and he’s played on records. And again, he’s another one of these, um, absolute. You know, he, he’s, he’s a master at what he does and, and you just have to ask him to play it with you. And, um, very lucky. It was funny ’cause I, I supported a band that he does with Martin Belmont and, um, on the way to the gig, I was listening to the, I dunno if you’re familiar with Peter Blegvad, but he’s, he’s one of the greatest songwriters in the world. Peter Blegvad is amazing. And he has this song called “Gold”, which is one of the most beautiful songs you’re gonna hear. And there’s this haunting steel guitar on it. And I was pulling into the gig listening to this album, King Strut, that, that Peter Blegvad put out with the beautiful steel guitar on this song. I pull in, I’m not gonna, I gotta see who’s playing this steel guitar on this. This is incredible. It’s B. J. Cole. It is unloading the steel guitar out of the trunk of his car. And I go, bj, I just gotta [00:30:00] tell you, I’m just, and he, he pulls out, he has this bag in there. He pulls out his crib sheet for that song that he had used. He keeps all this stuff with him. So he had the sheet with his, his notations for that song on it. It was just amazing. Uh, again, he’s, what I really like about players like B. J. and those guys is, is they got the fundamentals. You know, he can play all the, you know, all the Lloyd Green stuff. He can play all the, all the Together Again, the Tom Brumley stuff, but he can also make up the weirdest stuff as well. He, he thinks like a total musician. He’s, he’s a genius extremely nice guy. And then you like, you like me talking to him and he goes, ‘Oh, yeah, Oh, that’s interesting, because this reminds me when I cut “Tiny Dancer”.’ You’re gonna wait a second back up, you know? Or Yes. The Walker Brothers. I, I, I don’t like you’re going…

DJ: I did see that he played, I mean, his resume is like, he played with Humble Pie. He played with Procol Harum, T. Rex. Uh, yeah, I did see that he played with The Walker Brothers.

Bob: He’s on No Regrets, they’re great version, No Regrets. He’s [00:31:00] got B. J. playing still on it. I mean, if, if, playing on people’s records play, you know, paid dividends like royalties, B. J. would be living in Graceland or something, you know, he, he’s on everything.

DJ: Yeah. Well, there’s humor in a lot of your songs, I think, and as far as the sound, you can hear occasional Western swing. So I guess is that, I’m guessing that’s because of your, your days in Tulsa?.

Bob: Yeah. there’s that, um, to me, that feel of like a Western swing is, I’m not trying to a, but like dressing up in the clothes and, you know, and. Some bands can do that really well, but, uh, I guess, again, that’s like the, the Lou Whitney and me thing. You know, I just wanna wear who I am and come out and do the stuff. And, um, but that, that’s always in there. And the humorous aspect of it, I think, you know, you look at the great guys like, uh, like Richard Thompson and, um, who, who’s extremely funny. He’s extremely funny. If you go see him live,

DJ: Yeah.

Bob: Uh, you look at, um, John Prine, the master, isn’t it? Of, of, but they’re not silly. They’re not like Ray Stevens or something. The, and, and [00:32:00] like everything is kind of like a combination of sadness and, and, and humor and the mo the gamut. So I think you can’t just be morose all the time and not, I think when you’re very young writing songs and stuff, you think it’s about being morose. ’Cause you want people to understand your pain, you know, not, not realizing that people don’t actually want your pain. You know, they don’t want it, but you, you right then you kind of realize that you need to, um, to balance everything out. and sometimes it’s just, it, it’s, it’s more fun to play a song that that’s, that’s got some levity to it. Leonard Cohen’s hilarious. You know what I mean? Like Leonard Cohen could be very funny in his songs. And I, you know, Dylan, sometimes his stuff’s screamingly funny sometimes Neil Young, these guys aren’t like these. And, um, you gotta, you gotta have that aspect in your, in your writing.

DJ: I’m so glad that years ago I saw Leonard Cohen here at The Fox in St. Louis. And, uh, man, 

Bob: Oh, brilliant. 

DJ: What a memorable, just, it was, it’s like an, a religious experience [00:33:00] seeing Leonard Cohen.

Bob: Yeah, we were listening. Uh, my girlfriend and I were listening to, um, to, uh, John Cale do “Hallelujah”, that great version that he did, and we were talking about Leonard Cohen. It’s like, there’s actually some, some lines in that song. They’re quite funny, but when you hear the covers or people are like, I’m over emoting it and take putting all this soul into it, they’re kind of missing some of the, the rye bits that are actually…

DJ: Lot of dark humor.

Bob: …really good.

DJ: In that.

Bob: Yeah,

DJ: Well, I mean, you, there’s a pretty impressive list of bands and artists you’ve worked with or supported too, like Dave Alvin and, um, oh, The Handsome Family, I think.

Bob: Yeah, it was really funny ’cause when, um, when I played with The Handsome Family, my son was only a few months old and uh, you know, they were backstage with him watching him while I played. It was a, yeah,

DJ: I saw them. When I mentioned, uh, as I often do, uh, Rick Wood, I saw The Handsome Family at a Rick Wood House concert a long time ago. I, I just…

Bob: Oh, wow.

DJ: Loved those guys. [00:34:00] And, uh, yeah, it was really cool when they, it was at the first season of True Detective, like, opened up with like the, the opening titles, had a really cool, Handsome Family song.

Uh, yeah. What an interesting couple.

Bob: Very good. Good people. Very good

DJ: Yeah. I have an autographed, I have an autographed book or a couple of hers that, you know, her…

Bob: Oh, wow.

DJ: …books that she put out. Uh, yeah. The night that I saw them at, uh, Rick’s, they, she signed a couple books for me.

Bob: Do you know what’s really interesting about all when you, when you, when you start to meet people and stuff, the good ones are generally really nice people.

DJ: Yes, I would say so.

Bob: It’s, it’s amazing. And I think it goes to the fact that they’re secure people. They don’t have, you know, they’re not in a contest with anybody and, and the good ones are really nice. And I’ve, I’ve, I’ve, of all the people I’ve met, almost all my heroes except like Dylan. I haven’t met Bob Dylan or Neil Young, but they’re good people. You know, you meet ’em and they’re, they’re, they’re nice.

DJ: Yeah, I, there are two of my heroes and I obviously never met either of them, [00:35:00] but yeah, there’s, and I’ve seen them both on several occasions, but at least twice. I was just right up there, like at the foot of the stage, like I’m like, you know, you hate to like, think of it as worship, but I’m like, there is Bob Dylan, like 15 feet in front of me. And then, uh, Neil Young, I’ve seen quite a few, two times two. And then there was one in particular, uh, show that I managed to get way up, like right by the stage. And uh, yeah, they were big, big heroes of mine. Yeah. Something else.

Bob: Do you know what, Dylan, to me, it’s, it’s hard to describe, um, to somebody how, I mean, he’s a, he’s part of the elements of, of life, you know, he’s like firewater. He, he, he’s just this, this all encompassing kind of ideal of what creativity is to me. He’s, he lives in his own kind of time and, and his own rhythm of life and he lives outside of all the things going on around us. It’s not, ’cause he’s an aloof guy. I think he’s just, he’s just [00:36:00] one of those really rare people. That are for the ages and to see him in concert. And I saw him last year. I’ve seen him again. I’ve seen him more than anybody I’ve seen. You know? And um, when you see him, it is this experience of like, you’re seeing history right in front of you. This is a person, this is, this is an important person you’re gonna see. And I, I love that about him. You know, there’s only a few people that I feel that way. McCartney is another guy. That same kind of thing. and I, when those guys are gone, it’s gonna be really sad. I hate to think of, I hate to think about the days and, um, you know, the only, I gotta tell you this, the only person I ever thought, Hmm, maybe not was a friend of mine was playing with Lou Reed. Uh, the last tour he did over here. I was playing guitar with him gave me a pass. I was with a, a friend of mine and we were going back, started going back towards this. It was really weird ’cause Eric Andersen, the songwriters was, was with us. He had, he’d saddled up with us ’cause he’s a friend of Lou. We were on the way backstage. To meet Lou. And I thought, looked at my friend, I said, do you think we should do this? Do you think Lou Reed is gonna [00:37:00] actually, we might get, get yelled at by Lou, which is cool. But then we really went that we thought, nah, so we just left, you know, better just play it safe. I mean, he might’ve been lovely. I’m sure he, but, um, my friend that played with him said he was great. He had no issue. He said he was absolutely brilliant, but I thought, I don’t wanna risk it.

DJ: Well, there are a lot of people I mentioned frequently on this podcast, just people I love and one of those that does come up a lot or has come up a lot is Brinsley Schwarz.

I think anyone who listens to this podcast with any regularity by now knows just how influential. Brinsley and his band were in my world. so I would like to share with the listeners how it came to be that I was able to talk with Schwarz back in 2024. I don’t know that too many people know this, but yeah, I think it was in April of 2024. I got a message from someone I did not know who told me he was an expat from Oklahoma, living in the UK. Said he really liked the podcast and that he [00:38:00] had made some records with The Skeletons, another band I mention frequently. That person also shared with me that he was friends and collaborators with Martin Belmont and Brinsley Schwarz. And would you be interested in either of them being guests on the show? And listeners, if you haven’t already figured out who sent me that message, that was none other than my guest today. Bob Collum.

Bob: I am guilty.

DJ: You’re guilty. But, but I’m forever in your debt.

Bob: Put your helmet on. ’cause I’m gonna drop some names.

DJ: Uh, no. I, believe me, I, I can be a shameless name dropper, but I, I soak that kinda stuff up because I’m starstruck and because I have, there’s just so many people, especially in the music world that I love and, you know,

Bob: Do you know…?

DJ: When there’s any connection.

Bob: Dave, you know what? You gotta, if you like something, let the person know. I mean, that is, I think you have a duty to let somebody know that they’ve, that you appreciate what they do. There’s no, and, and nobody’s going to give, think you’re weird or anything. They’re, they’re going to, I think in their own way, they’ll accept that it is [00:39:00] interesting Brinsley. Right? Here’s what, what Americans is. We don’t understand this. We have no concept of, of live music beyond, um, how it was in this country pre Brinsley. Um, and well, actually bees make honey in brinsley. You know, they were the not Bees Make Honey, um, sorry. Eggs Over Easy in the… 

DJ: Eggs Over easy. Yeah.

Bob: There was no pub rock scene. There was no bar band scene in the UK. It was concerts or you would hire halls and put on your own concerts, but there were no, we’re gonna go down to the local pub and see a band play. Where in America bar bands have always, that’s just been the thing, hasn’t it? Bars have live music clubs have live music. It didn’t exist over here until those, the American expats, the, um, the guys from Eggs Over Easy did the, um, the Kenny, the, um, Tally Ho in Kensington, and, and got the owner let ’em play on Sundays, and then the Brinsleys, were the next band to do that. That was a, in the early seventies, that was a whole new concept. And it was like this massive, and this is why I think the Pub Rock thing leads to the punk. It was just, oh my God, we can do this ourselves. And, uh, they were, and, the, [00:40:00] I love the Brinsley records, but it was their attitude and the way they went about forging their path ahead I is, um, is very important and, and, and influential. And everybody says that they were never good on record as they were live. And the few live recordings are are pretty amazing. But, uh, yeah, I mean Silver, the Silver Pistol album, I think is, is an incredible bit of work.

DJ: I think so. I bought, uh, when that, Cherry Red Collection came out. I got that and there’s a lot, I mean, I love just hearing like all those, it’s a good mix of like kind of obscure live performances, but it also has like all the original albums that they released. It’s such great stuff.

Bob: They were, they were great and they were doing, they were doing their, their song selection as well was, was thinking about, they weren’t doing hit particularly hits. I mean, they did that great version of, um, “Please Don’t Ever Change” by The Crickets. I love that to pieces, man, and again, it’s a band having fun. It’s that spirit of like The Beatles at Hamburg, you know, that kind of having fun that leads up to like Lou and the [00:41:00] boys and, and all of that NRBQ and then The Replacements at their best. It was that idea of on stage, you know, the faces, all those bands on stage having fun.

DJ: Well, I was not only obviously very appreciative that you reached out to me and said, you know, hey, I was, it was like, wow, somebody’s, you know, listening. Uh, well, anytime I find out that somebody’s listening anywhere, but, uh, you know, I do get a lot of, uh, listeners across the pond and elsewhere around the world, which is kind of amazing to me. But yeah, then I started after that first conversation we had, which was just kind of over text or whatever, started checking out your music, which I loved, and I started realizing, of course, there were even more people that you were, you know, associated with that I either knew or I had talked to one of those being Peter Holsapple, who, Peter played keyboards and accordion on your album, right? On Wasted Wonderland.

Bob: He does, yeah, he’s on, um, that’s… Wasted Wonderland’s, like a compilation.

DJ: Well, yes, it’s a compilation.

Bob: But he’s, he’s, you know, by the last 10 years Peter’s been adding stuff to [00:42:00] records. He, we did, we covered a “Different Drum” and Peter played a great guitar on that as well. Well, he’s just one of those dudes. So Pete, Pete, there’s two people I know that were Facebook before there was Facebook, Peter and Wesley Stace, John Wesley Harding were the people that back in the old days that you knew, that were connectors between various groups of people, you know, they were the common link. and he, Peter is, uh, is one of the most creative songwriters. And it’s hard to say that he, he’s underrated because we know he is great, but he’s very underrated as a songwriter. His process I think is absolutely brilliant. He’s, he’s very, he’s very open to the, you know, he’s like, you listen to Peter’s songs and you go, there’s, there’s a lot of crafts of taking, like his raw idea and then how he forms the song around that I find very fascinating. And he’s just, he’s got amazing taste. I mean, if, if you follow Peter on, and I would encourage everybody to follow Peter on, on social media, but he posts the most amazing tracks and he’s a music guy. I think Peter is music.

DJ: Yeah. [00:43:00] I love talking with him. Uh, yeah. It was just so great to get to talk with him and, um, well, and then it was so cool that not long after you and I met each other through, you know, just messaging and, talking, getting to know each other that way, had Peter on for a second episode, he had already been on, and then during that second episode at one point he was like, ‘you know who you should talk? Bob Collum. He’s great.’ And I was like, oh my God. I, I think I said to him like, oh, well we’ve been, you know, kind of got to know each other sort of recently. So, yeah, he…

Bob: Peter and I have…

DJ: You got an endorsement from Peter Holsapple.

Bob: Well, do you know what, when I was like 15 and buying Like This, when it came out,

DJ: Oh, yes.

Bob: If you had told me, uh, there’s no way I would’ve believed, you know,

DJ: Yeah, I have a signed copy of that, which I’m very proud to, to have…

Bob: That’s a, I would say any listeners have not listening to, to Peter the dB’s, you need to a, right now, pause this podcast and [00:44:00] buy if you can. I would recommend buying, but if you must stream, listen to the dB’s, especially the, the, the, uh, like this album I find is, um, excuse me, the, uh, Sound of Music album is a masterclass in how to write unclassifiable Great American music. It’s a stunning album. It’s a stunning album. And this is, this is what’s interesting because I always feel like I get tagged with Americana just because that’s kind of the easiest way to say what I, I play. But when I play I feel the roots of it are in things like Sound of Music by the dB’s. I think it’s in King of America, the Elvis Costello album. I think it’s in, things like The Basement Tapes, the Dylan stuff. And it’s funny, okay. Peter and I, a few years ago, we’re trying to describe, ’cause he’s, he finds himself, I mean, I don’t feel like, I feel like I could speak for him. We were talking about what do we describe what we do. And I think, I think the best description of what we do is White Album music. ’Cause everything, like a guy like me, I think a guy like Peter and so many of us, everything we do can [00:45:00] be traced back in some way to the White album. There’s a representation of the music on that in some way, you know? Which is that great collection of just everything hodgepodge onto a double album.

And that’s, that’s, you know, that’s what I would say. If I had to describe my music, I would say, you know, The Beatles’ White album music.

DJ: I love it. Bob Collum, we finally made this happen. It was so great to be able to talk with you. The first episode of 2026.

Bob: Oh my God. 2026. Wow. You know, they always tell me the last label guy say, you never talk about your music and you know, I think everybody should listen to it. Go out right now and, and download everything I’ve ever done. Please do that. Um, it’s all absolutely brilliant. And that’s not, I, you know, that’s difficult to, to, okay. I find it very hard to talk up my own stuff. It’s very difficult because I love music and what I love. I’d rather talk about what I love, you know, but, um, get that Wasted Wonderland album that’s got the best stuff I’ve ever done. That’s all you need. Go out and go out and get that.

DJ: That’s right. Well, I really appreciate this being [00:46:00] the first Frets episode of 2026 and more on the way. And, uh, can’t thank you enough, uh, for doing this, and again, for, uh, introducing me to Brinsley Schwarz.

Bob: Oh man. My pleasure guy. Alright, love to everybody in America. Hello, St. Louis. Send me an Imo’s Pizza.

DJ: Love it.

Bob: Hey, this is Bob Collum and you are demonstrating, you are a very tasteful and discernible listener ’cause you’re listening to Frets with DJ Fey.