Crispian Mills was born into a family of actors, film producers and directors. He was exposed to a wide variety of music, but when he heard “You Really Got Me” by The Kinks, it was an epiphany – he knew he wanted to play guitar. Through determination and practice, he became a great guitarist. He loved Deep Purple. He loved The Ramones. He played in bands including X-Ray Spex before forming Kula Shaker in 1996. Their debut album K was the fastest-selling debut since the self-titled first record by Elastica. Noel Gallagher, a fan of the band, invited them to open for Oasis at Knebworth. Their album, Peasants, Pigs & Astronauts, was recorded at David Gilmour’s Astoria houseboat studio in London with production help from Bob Ezrin, Rick Rubin and George Drakoulias. Kula Shaker have continued to produce great psychedelic Brit-pop over the last couple decades. They released Natural Magick in 2024 as well as two recent singles, “Charge of the Light Brigade” and “Broke as Folk”. A tour with The Dandy Warhols kicks off this fall. He’s a talented, spiritual, dynamic singer songwriter with a great guitar sound. It was fascinating to talk with Kula Shaker frontman… Crispian Mills.

Dave: Crispian Mills, thanks so much for doing this today.

Crispian: Thank you for having me on Frets.

Dave: Well, I’d love to hear about your early life and growing up in West London and being born into a family of actors, film producers, directors. At what age did you become aware of what your parents and grandparents were doing as a profession?

Crispian: I was always aware of it. Uh, I mean, I was aware that they had jobs and, uh, it involved going away, you know, uh, and disappearing and into, uh, this other world. I think acting is the kind of job where you go away, get very, have very intense relationships with a small group of people and then separate from them and move on to the next job. And, you know, so it was, you know, you end up having sort of pockets of friends from different times of your life and different jobs. Um. you know, my, uh, my grandfather played music as well. He played piano, and my father also played piano. And so it was, it was in the family and I absorbed it, you know, without really being, uh, conscious of, you know, how much you’re sort of soaking up.

Dave: Sure.

Crispian: And I think, I think it’s like that with music. how it becomes a part of your life and if you start playing it, what kind of music are you gonna start playing? So much of that is because of the, of what you’ve absorbed at that formative time in your life. It’s very interesting to go back and see where the first scars were left.

Dave: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I grew up in the sixties and remember your mom Haley Mills in stuff, even when I was a kid, like Pollyanna, and of course The Parent Trap where she played two parts, the twin sisters.

But then in my teen years, I was reading just about every book I could get about the Beatles, anything I could get my hands on. And I read Hunter Davies’ biography and it mentioned, I think that was the first time I read about The Family Way that Paul McCartney and George Martin provided music for. But that was also something that your dad wasn’t, well, your mom starred in it, but your dad was very much involved in that.

Crispian: Yeah, no, it’s, it’s a, it’s a real sort of timepiece of, uh, British cinema, you know, in the late, mid sixties. Um, it was written by, uh, the same guy wrote the film, Alfie, you know, the, the, the Michael Caine starred in, and my grandfather played the dad, and my, my mom played the daughter, and my father was the, was the director. And had worked on this on the script as well, and they wanted, you know, it was a real sixties. sixties movie, uh, you know, was real, sort of real sort of snapshot of sort of working class, Northern England. I dunno why they asked my mom and her dad because they, they weren’t really known for being working class, but they played it, they played the part well, and, they managed to get Paul McCartney. Paul McCartney saw a rough cut and he saw the film and then he went off on a, romantic holiday with Jane Asher and just sort of disappeared and, and my dad said, uh, that they were all freaking out, that they thought they, maybe they’d lost Paul McCartney for the soundtrack, but also, you know, or maybe he, he was just, you know, incommunicado. So they confided to George Martin, who was in charge of the score. You know what – we’re freaking out. What do we wanna, what are we gonna do? And George Martin said, don’t worry, I will write a piece of music for you.

Dave: Hmm.

Crispian: So, um, they were like, okay, well that’s great. I mean, music by George Martin is still a big thing, you know, it’s still gonna be really cool. So then they turned up to, uh, they turned up to, uh, a studio and George Martin was there and he says, look, here’s the good news. I have spoken to Paul. He sent me his music. so you do have it after all, but I, you have actually two pieces. You have the piece I wrote plus you have Paul’s piece. Would you like to hear both? And they said, yes, please. That’d be fantastic. He said, I won’t, tell you which is which. You have to choose yourfavorite one, which is a bit bit naughty of him. Um, so they, uh, he, he sat the piano and he played them the two themes. And my dad and his brother sat and they listened to these two themes and they said, oh, the second one, definitely we want that.

And he went, damn. I knew it. I knew it was, and it was Paul’s. So they had, um, they ended up choosing Paul’s, but they had, they had a moment there had, that was a moment there.

Dave: Well, Murray Head was also in the film – Murray Head of Jesus Christ Superstar fame. He was in that film.

Crispian: Yeah, Murray Head was in it. Uh, I got dubbed. He got dubbed, um, unfortunately, I dunno how he felt about that. Um, and Murray Head, who, who was in Jesus Christ Superstar and sang “One Night in Bangkok” for the musical Chess, He, the brother of Murray Head, who was the, uh, the teacher in Buffy the Vampire Slayer?

Dave: Oh wow. I did not know that.

Crispian: Well, now you do.

Dave: Well, your grandfather, you mentioned all, he introduced you to a lot of music when you were young, I understand.

Crispian: Well, yeah, but he, he kind of, he introduced me to music just through playing the piano. He was, he was really good and so he was the person, you know, he, a lot of the grandchildren used to sort of sit and sit next to him at the piano and, and listen and maybe sort of join in a bit, but that, that, that was the most sort of musical coming together that we had, it was with, with him at the piano. And I used to get, you know, I used to go over there and to their house and just sit at the piano for hours. And my grandmother used to sort of encourage me. And, uh, you know, it is a gift. It is a blessing to have an ear for music. And she was, she used to say, you know, that now don’t take it for granted. And, you know, it’s, uh, you know, don’t, don’t waste it.

Dave: Yeah. Well, tell me if this is correct, but I was reading that you were inspired to play the guitar upon hearing “You Really Got Me” by The Kinks.

Crispian: Yeah. Yeah, I think that that was the moment, that was the road to Damascus moment. Um, you know, there’s been a few, really influential experiences where you get pushed, you know, further into music or further into a, a, an instrument. But the, the, the moment that my. That I was, um, first sort of the spell was first cast was this sort of, and you’re transported and there’s nothing else in except for that piece of music.

It was hearing that for the first time in my life and, uh, I, I heard it loud as well.

Dave: That’s the way to hear it.

Crispian: Heard it played really loud. I heard it coming through, uh, from somebody’s room. I heard it coming down the hallway. I walked into the room like I was entering the sort of inner chamber of some temple and there and there it was this music. And, uh, I mean, it was already, you know, 20, 25 years old when I heard it, that music. But it, you know, it was still and still got it now. And there’s a moment in the, uh, the new sort of, you know, the, the great, the complete unknown, The, uh, Timothee Chardonnay (Chalamet) movie, where, uh. 

Dave: Yeah.

Crispian: Yeah. Yeah. Where, where they, they have, uh, The Kinks, “You Really Got Me”. It, it features somewhere around the middle of the film and, and you, and, and you know, you’ve had all this folk music up to that point, and then suddenly you hear it blasting out of a car and, and you really get this, this sense of that Dylan as well must have said, man, I’m having some of that.

Dave: Yeah.

Crispian: I’ve had enough than this folk stuff. Get me an electric guitar. I want, I want some of that, that hot sauce, you know, rock and roll. That, that is a fix, man. I mean,

Dave: and I’m 

Crispian: It’s interesting. 

Dave: I’m so glad Dylan went electric and…

Crispian: Well, it’s a, it, it was inevitable, you know, and he got, you know, he got that. Strat, you know, he got the buddy Holly Strat, that that was the first electric that he, he got, wasn’t it? And it, and, you think, you wonder why he didn’t. uh, do it, you know, to begin with, I guess was part of the journey for him. But, you know, it’s interesting hearing Dylan talk about, you know, his pilgrimage to, to go and see Buddy Holly, uh, and how he, you know, he stood at the front and watched him and was, you know, almost sort of, uh, infected. By by that kind of by the magic. By the power, because it does, it does visit people like that.

You know, it, that something, it touches them and, uh, some kind of Holy Spirit, you know?

Dave: Yeah.

Crispian: So, um, I, I, yeah, I think it was, it was always destiny.

Dave: Well, who were some of your other guitarists or band heroes that were influences along the way?

Crispian: Well, um, after, you know, I like went through that, you know, that initiation into, uh, electric guitar and The Kinks and everything. The next big moment was, was hearing “Smoke on the Water.” The, the and “Highway Star”, the the Deep Purple Live record. I heard that, you know, when I was like, uh, 12, just the perfect age to hear that record is, you know, um, and just like, who is, who is Richie Blackmore? I must, I must know more. You know it. And uh, and I was wondering why I was talking to somebody about this the other night. And I can’t remember why it came up, but it was, uh, I think it was a friend of mine was talking to Steve Jones from the Sex Pistols about, you know, uh, and he mentioned “Highway Star,” Steve Jones mentioned “Highway Star” and what an amazing track that was. And. We were talking about why Deep Purple weren’t on all these lists of Oh, oh. Because it was, we were talking about Ozzy, you know, passing away and how, you know, Black Sabbath really get the credit and Led Zeppelin get the credit. And even like, Yes and Rush, but Deep Purple are kind of more. They, they’re kind of a bit, they were never cool. And why, why are they never on those kind of, you know, those all time great charts. I mean, they’re on my charts, but I think it’s because the lists are made by snobs.

Dave: Exactly. Yeah. I …

Crispian: But they’re very, very influential.

Dave: Yeah, no, I was listening to that live album and Machine Head quite a bit in high school. I love those albums. Would you say your interest in spiritualism led you to psychedelic music or maybe the other way around? Did psychedelia possibly lead you into an interest in spiritualism?

Crispian: Spiritualism. Well, in England, spiritualism means, um, like, people, uh, old ladies, uh, can’t get around and reading tea leaves and sort of clairvoyance. But, um, so I, I’m assuming you mean like sort of spirituality and those, like those…

Dave: Yes. Yeah.

Crispian: Yeah, that, um, no, I, I think it’s just part of life and it’s, You know, some people gravitate towards, more, with more abandon than others. And I think that those are the people that traditionally in the tribe would say, all right, you go and be one of the, you go and be an apprentice to the, to the priest or the shaman or whoever, or you go and live in that community, you know? Yeah, I think it’s just your calling and it’s like, it’s like playing music. I think everybody loves music, but some people are, are called to play it as well. And uh, and, and some people are called to devote their life entirely to it. And some people just don’t have a choice and it sends them a bit mad. And I think spirituality’s just like that. It’s just. It’s part of everyone’s life, and it’s just how much it dominates it, and how much you, you are prepared to give. And so for me it was, it was really like that. It was always around, these, uh, this sort of sense of the spiritual life being, you know, the, as important as anything else. If not the the basis of everything else. So, um, yeah, my grandma was a very, my grandma was half Irish and she was always going on about the spirits and blaming the spirits for the fact she drank too much. And, uh, and we had some missionaries in the family. So there was a bit of a tradition of, you know, that, that, that walk of life, I think psychedelics. Are they can sort of, um, explain a few things. Sometimes not, they don’t give you the answer to life, but they can explain or give an insight into why, people ask the questions for big questions and why people pursue it. It only opens up and doors. Uh, but it doesn’t, it doesn’t give you any shortcuts.

For sure. Definitely. You know, you just gotta claw your way there. The, the hard way, like everybody else. It reveals the mountain. It doesn’t let you climb it. Maybe. Is that a… 

Dave: That’s a great way of putting it. I do wanna get into the formation of Kula Shaker, but prior to that you did a stint in, um, X-Ray Spex with Poly Styrene.

Crispian: Yeah. Yeah, that was a great, uh, that was a great experience. That was my first professional job where I got hired and I got paid. she, I, I knew her actually. I bumped into her a couple of times in the Krishna Temple, and, uh, my mom had met her a couple of times. Also at the, at the Krishna Temple, you know, at a feast or something. And she was cool. And, she always recognized me and, and pointed me out because I had like a sixties bowl haircut, like a Brian Jones haircut. Even, even when I was like 14 I think is when I started, I started sculpting it. And then, and then she used to kind of joke with me saying, oh, I think you are the reincarnation of [00:14:00] Brian Jones, and I want Brian Jones in my band.

Dave: That’s

Crispian: But, you know, she had, she had, uh, she, she battled her whole life with mental illness and, and she has, so, you know, she. Having huge, uh, breaks in her career and like years and year, decades sometimes of doing nothing. And then, uh, she was booked to do a big show at one, one of the big theaters in London, called Brixton Academy, which is, you know, like five and a half thousand. It was quite a big gig to do if you have been off the map for a long time. And, uh, you know, it was, it was a great night and I, I had to learn all of that, uh, album. All of the German free adolescence album, plus a couple of new ones that she had, which were, which were good from a, an EP she’d done called, Trick of the Witch or something. And it was really, it was a really good experience, but I was thrown out in front of a big audience at 17 and, uh. I remember everyone in the band was black. I was the only white guy in the band, and the whole audience was very white and there was a lot of quite scary old punks. And, and there was a moment of fear where we just didn’t know who, what kind of audience it was gonna be. And the keyboard, everyone was. no one was really scared apart from the keyboard player. I seem to remember him going quite pale, even for a black guy. He was pretty pale that night. And, uh, but we went out and we, and we did it and, and it was great. The audience were really, were really warm and I, and I did get a taste of what it was like. to play hit songs to a welcoming crowd. And, um, it kept me going for a while and I, it made it feel more obtainable as well. I guess it made me feel like, yeah, you can, you can do this. I’d seen behind the curtain and I’d seen, you know, what went into putting on a show? I’d been playing in bands for a long time at school and, but not like that. Not at that level. Uh, and I, I was already smoking cigarettes and I said, I’m gonna give up smoking cigarettes for this show. I’m gonna be really, you know, really, I was all, you know, it’s ridiculous. I was 17. I was already worrying about being a smoker and I, I got paid 500 quid, which was, you know, a lot of money for a 17-year-old. I spent the whole thing on buying pure weed because it was a good way to give up smoking tobacco.

Dave: There you go. Well the name of the band Kula Shaker that came from, was it like an ancient Indian holy man or emperor?

Crispian: Yeah, the name, uh, Kulasekhara was, uh, you, it’s quite famous in South India. Uh, Kulasekhara is how it’s, no, it doesn’t, it’s not spelt the way, the way that we spell it, but he’s a famous king. It was one of The Alvars, which was a collection of poets that have been grouped, you know, by historians as a a, as a movement of devotional Saints who were also poets. They were called Alvars and some of them were. Um, you know, like, you know, penniless wanderers who wrote this amazing poetry, and some of them were men, some of them were women, uh, and some of them, one of them was a king. And they all, and they, and they, they, they have a particular mood. It’s not just devotional. Uh, and, and, and they regard God as a person and they also, uh, were, they would also kind of descend into sort of ecstatic, uh, symptoms. They would express very intimate, uh, love for God and would often, you know exhibit symptoms that people would, you know, normal people would think they were mad, you know, or in some sort of state of ecstatic trance. And he’s a really interesting, uh, history of, The Alvars, but I, I wasn’t really a great sort of historian or anything, but I heard about King Kulasekhara. Who, because he sounded like a cross between Merlin and King Arthur. And, you know, uh, Francis all rolled into one, but I heard about it. But because, uh, I met this old Krishna devotee who had, um, you know, lived with, uh, John Lennon and George Harrison, and knew a lot of stories from the late sixties and the days when the Krishna Temple made a record at Apple Records. and, uh he had been named after that King.

Dave: Oh wow.

Crispian: So I just, when I heard the name, I just, I just thought it sounded, it sounded musical and it sounded, sounded like I recently found that, um, Kula Shaker uh, means, uh, ass, shake your ass in Spanish.

Crispian: Hello, this is Crispian Mills from Kula Shaker and you are listening to Frets with DJ Fey.

Dave: Nice. Well, I watched a lot of 120 Minutes in the nineties and I used, I used to actually record those on VHS tapes back in the VHS tape days. I still have a handful of those around here somewhere. But you guys showed up on MTV 120 Minutes a lot. Um, back in those days. I remember seeing, tva and also I remember a, a pretty funny promo, if I’m remembering right.

One of those like promos between videos and you guys came out and said something like, Hey, we’re the Spice Girls and you’re watching 120 Minutes on MTV.

Crispian: Yeah,

Dave: I loved all that stuff. That was, that was a good period for MTV, I thought.

Crispian: Yeah, yeah. Everybody was just, uh, it was a bit of a riot, wasn’t it? Uh, it was a bit of a free for all. It was a free for all, and the bands were, you know, making it their business to be as badly behaved as possible. And, uh, and for some reason, most of the, the VJs as they were called, they, um, they were all quite straight. So, so it, well, you know, yeah, there was, they weren’t, they were sort of always expecting a, a sensible answer, and they never got one.

Dave: when the band first formed, how did it come to be? Like, did you initiate that or was it a collaboration between you and other band members that you had been playing with?

Crispian: Yeah, we, we, uh, we. We got, you know, we, we formed like all bands do because we were mates or because we played in other bands together, or, um, you know, and you get to a point where you kind of gravitate towards the best people you’ve met, you know, so far. And Alonzo lived up the road from me in, in Hampton and, uh, Paul, I, I’d recently just met playing drums with another band and, uh. I was ready to leave home, you know, and I said, I’m gonna, I’m gonna move out. I’m gonna get a place that I gotta, I got somewhere to leave my stuff and then I’m gonna go to India. I’ve got, I’ve gotta go on mission, I’ve gotta go on a pilgrimage. Um, when I come back, you know, let’s all get a place together. Let’s all just go for it. And just. Give ourselves no options other than success. Uh, and failure will just be, you know, this, this, this unspeakable thing. And, and, and it was, it did put a lot of pressure on us that we had no backup plan, we had no skills, no qualifications, and we were just all in. And, uh, very reckless. I, and I wonder sometimes, you know, if we hadn’t done that, would we have. Would we have kept going because it was a, it was a long from the point that we, where we all committed to the ban, it was about two years to get our proper, our record deal that we eventually made. K. With. And, and I know it doesn’t sound like a lot, you know, now, but when you are, uh, 18, 19, two years is like a, it’s a huge chunk of your life. 

Dave: It really is.

Crispian: Uh, so it’s, it’s, uh, it, there were times where we just thought we were cursed and it was never gonna work. And another, some friends of ours were in a bank called Reef. Reef got signed about just, under a year. Before we did, which, um, you know, started to become quite difficult for us to, to deal with, but they, they, you know, it ended up great. We all actually ended up with Sony in the end.

Dave: You guys recently released a great new single, along with a very cool, trippy video for “Charge of the Light Brigade”.

Crispian: Yeah, we got, uh, we, we have, we have been very prolific, uh, especially in the last, uh, four to five years. Um, oh no, it’s even less than that. Oh my God, we, in the last three years, we, we’ve released, uh, well, it’s coming up to three albums now,

Dave: Yeah.

Crispian: Um, because of, you know, the band broke up in the end of 99. Uh, uh, and it was a, you know, just, just down to pure stress really. and in the interim, you know, we ended up making the occasional record with huge breaks in between them because we were doing other things and we were indie a small indie label, and we just had almost started again. Uh, and then we, you know, we came out of the whole COVID Mania. Uh, we came out of that with a, you know, like a, like, sort of like the Batmobile with, with, with Jay, you know, came back. We managed to get him back from Oasis and, you know, the, the, the original lineup restored and this like huge burst of energy and, and a sense of purpose and timing. Like you need to have, you need to feel. Like you have a, a reason to make music and a, and the same kind of passion. You shouldn’t lose that passion as. You know, you can enjoy playing and hey, we’re just coming to a gig. ’cause, you know, it’s, but with Kula Shaker, it was, it was always like a real determined, um, uh, mission. A sense of mission. A sense of purpose to, you know, we’ve got to play, you know, we’ve got to, we’ve got to, uh, deliver this gig. We’ve got to, you know, sing these songs. And, um, we, we still got it. And, and now Jay’s back, you know, it’s like this new material and it’s been really good.

Dave: Well, your latest album, Natural Magick is great. The opening track gaslighting is fantastic and there’s just a lot of great, great tracks on the whole album. It’s really nice.

Crispian: Yeah, that was a lot of fun. We, well, you know, again, it was a very live record and, um, and that’s gonna, you know, how K was recorded and, um, we, we love Peasants, Pigs and Astronauts. You know, it was one that’s like our, our, somewhere between a folly and a masterpiece. Uh, but you know, it was, it was recorded over a long period of time with, Bob Ezrin and Rick Rubin. And, you know, K was much more sort of, you know, from the hip, you know, and a lot of it was thrown down quite quickly and it’d all been played live. So Natural Magick has a, has a bit of that going on. You know, there’s tracks on there that work. We tried and tested live and, and we’re still working like that. Now it’s all “Charge of the Light bBigade” and the new single “Broke As Folk”. They all, they all played live and they all, um, you know, you can really hear energy.

Dave: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I remembered something else I wanted to ask you about. We talked earlier about, uh, when we were talking about Murray Head, you know, who was in The Family Way directed by your dad. on Kula Shaker’s 2010 album Pilgrim’s Progress, which I think – I love that album. Uh, the track “Modern Blues”, toward the end of the track, there’s like a subtle or maybe not so subtle nod to Jesus Christ Superstar with that classic guitar riff that shows up toward the end of the song. You know what I’m talking about, right? You have to. 

Crispian: Yeah. 

Dave: I love that. I, that was just a, I love when bands do that and,

Crispian: Well, I break into Jesus Christ Superstar all the time. I can’t, I can’t help it. It just so happened,

Dave: It’s…

Crispian: I mean, Jesus Christ Superstar was a, was a, , you know, , one of our references for Peasants, Pigs & Astronauts.

Dave: Yeah. Yeah.

Crispian: Uh, you know, it was a, you know, it was like knowing we’re approaching the end of the century. Um. We thought, well, you know, we gotta, we gotta do the, uh, the, the millennial concept record, like properly go for it. Not just like a, a lyric here or there, or the, or, or nod in a title. You know, we’re gonna have to go the whole hog and do this album. You know, where are, where are we now? Where have we come from? Where are we going? One of those albums, and we, we certainly went there, uh. And I, and it’s interesting, you know how K, K made us like, like top of the pops, but it was actually Peasants, Pigs & Astronauts that kind of solidified that core fan base. and that got, you know, that we still play to now is that it was, that was the one where people realized we were, we were for real.

Dave: Yeah.  Well, Crispian Mills, this was very cool. Thank you so much for taking some time to talk today.

Crispian: My pleasure. I hope, um, we’ve spoken enough about guitars, not too much about, about religious, uh, devotional ecstatic stats.

Dave: That’s, that’s the great stuff.

Crispian: Alright.

Dave: Thanks, man. Take care.

Kula Shaker begins a fall tour at Escot Park in Exeter this week and starting in September – they’ll be playing shows here in the states. Do me a favor – subscribe for FREE to Frets with DJ Fey at all podcast platforms and… at YouTube, where you can find videos featuring live performances from Frets guests, as well as me, attempting to play guitar. It’s let’s just say, somewhat entertaining. Thanks for listening and – stay tuned.